Caleb Podcast
Welcome to Caleb Podcast, where we dive deep into the stories and perspectives that challenge conventional religious thought. Join me, Caleb Parker, your host and fellow seeker, as we embark on a journey to explore spirituality, faith, and humanity from a refreshingly open-minded perspective.
In each episode, I sit down with guests from diverse backgrounds and walks of life. From artists to activists, scientists to philosophers, we engage in candid conversations that transcend the boundaries of traditional Christian discourse. Together, we unravel the complexities of belief, doubt, and the human experience in the context of modern society.
Whether you identify as a devout believer, a skeptic, or something in between, Unhinged Christian offers a space for exploration and discovery. No topic is off-limits as we challenge assumptions, confront taboos, and embrace the richness of our shared humanity.
Join us as we navigate the intersections of faith, doubt, and everything in between. Tune in to Unhinged Christian and open your mind to a new dimension of spiritual inquiry.
Caleb Podcast
041: Dating in the Church: Blessing or Burden? With Stefan and Andy
"Has church ruined dating?" That's the provocative question at the heart of this raw, unfiltered conversation between three friends navigating the complex intersection of faith and romance.
The guys jump right into the tension between biblical ideals and real-life application in Christian relationships. They share how church teachings can create unrealistic expectations—men burdened with perfect leadership, women restricted to supporting roles—turning what should be natural connections into something that "feels like a job rather than a relationship." Their candid stories reveal the struggle many believers face when religious instruction doesn't prepare them for relationship realities.
Purity culture comes under particularly sharp examination. While saving sex for marriage remains a shared value among the hosts, they question whether the way this message is taught actually strengthens temptation rather than reducing it. "When you're restricted for your whole life pretty much, it gets to that point where then, all right, now I have a boyfriend or girlfriend, and you really just like it's almost you're falling into that temptation," one host observes. This leads to a fascinating discussion about whether churches equip young adults with practical strategies for maintaining boundaries or simply use fear tactics that ultimately backfire.
Perhaps most refreshing is their willingness to challenge the gender imbalance in how churches address physical temptation. Despite conventional wisdom suggesting men bear primary responsibility for maintaining boundaries, the hosts share experiences suggesting women in church settings often push physical boundaries just as frequently—yet face far less accountability.
Whether you're currently dating, considering a relationship, or simply interested in the evolving conversation around faith and romance, this episode offers valuable insights about navigating desire, expectations, and authentic connection in a Christian context. Subscribe now to join this ongoing conversation about finding healthy relationships while honoring faith commitments.
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Super heavy topic today.
Speaker 2:Just kidding, how heavy, like Rosie O'Donnell.
Speaker 1:No, we talked about it right what we were going to talk about.
Speaker 3:Or did you forget? I didn't forget. Did you forget? No, I'm used to you saying the titles of what we're doing here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so as far as I'm concerned, we were going to discuss has. I think the question was has church ruined dating?
Speaker 2:Was that what it?
Speaker 1:was.
Speaker 3:So we're all on the same page and on the clarity of everything on.
Speaker 1:Both spectrums not a certain thing? What?
Speaker 3:do you mean on both spectrums, both for a guy and for a girl?
Speaker 1:kind of thing. Oh right yeah.
Speaker 3:We're not going to try to attack one side, why not?
Speaker 1:No, yeah, seriously. Yeah, we're not gonna try to attack one side, why not?
Speaker 2:no, yeah, seriously we're, we, is that what?
Speaker 1:we're doing. We're that, we're incels, bro. Yeah, kidding, andy's married. I'm not a self-proclaimed incel, I just am by nature. And then, stephan, what would you?
Speaker 2:uh, it's kind of like, uh, a gray area, because there is somebody I'm talking to, but it's like we. I don't know if it's like official, official right now, so, because we've only hung out a few times that's still exciting. Wherever it goes is wherever it goes she's my backpack on the back of my motorcycle.
Speaker 3:So I'm glad to clarify um so it's not an actual girl, it's actually just a back it's a big guy named Tyrone.
Speaker 1:We're going to move on, All right so let's start with a short answer. Do you guys think that church has ruined dating, and why and why not? Who wants to go first? Andy, you got pointed to. Oh, okay, you want to go first.
Speaker 3:I would say yes, it has. It has ruined it, like short and sweet to the point. Um, I guess the things that can back it up is like I mean, I've had experiences before I got married where it's just like there was a certain amount of expectations, there were certain things that were not working out for either person myself or or them, um, and there's just, I don't know, it just felt like. There was just it didn't feel like a relationship, it felt sometimes like a job.
Speaker 1:What do you mean expectations?
Speaker 3:Well, it's like I mean, for starters, like a guy is taught, like in a biblical standpoint, like the woman is supposed to serve the guy and do all of these things, or like, for example, like the guy should lead and all of this stuff, which I think, yes, the guy should leave, but like, um, there's a higher set of expectation that was put upon that, like the guy should always be on top of everything, and then there's no nuance.
Speaker 3:Yeah, pretty much basically I couldn't think of the word. And then on the other side, for women, it's like they're expected to yeah, they're expected to be led to be, um, kind of like what's, what's the word I'm thinking?
Speaker 3:um the caretaker kind of caretaker and also to be um, a support to yeah, to be a support kind of thing, and I mean I can agree with that too, but it's like there's things that have been taught where it's like it, just like I said, it feels like more like a job rather than a relationship spectrum sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it also is like I feel it feels like more like a job rather than a relationship spectrum sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, and it also is like I feel like, because I'm not married so I really can only speak from the outside, I feel like it should be more natural, like if, if a guy in the relationship has to say I'm the leader of this relationship, it's like he's not yeah right, so it's like it needs to be taught how to like it's got to.
Speaker 2:It's got to work 50, 50 like you're a team. It's got to be a team effort.
Speaker 1:But if the guy because if the guy is going to lead in the relationship like it has to, he has to like I'm trying to think of the word, I can't, I can't think of what the word is he has to portray that naturally without saying that he's like, coming off as like this, I don't know like macho man who thinks that he's like if he's got to prove a point, I guess right if he has to prove anything to anybody, then it's like you're not really a leader versus like, because you all know the people who like walk into a room and it's like their presence there, it's like you just know they're a leader right, yeah yeah, versus like the guy who has to walk in and be like all right, I'm in charge here I'm in charge.
Speaker 2:You're not like that kind of thing yeah exactly
Speaker 3:but, no, yeah, it definitely. Yeah, there's. There's so many things that I mean we can, as we talk, as we talk about it, but there's just so many things that I feel like have caused like dating to be so much harder. And yeah, I don't know, I think in in a way, as we, as we go along with it. I believe that there's just some things that we can learn out of all of this, and especially with people who are just now getting into relationships or getting out of relationships. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Speaker 2:I would say it definitely has affected relationships with the church community From my standpoint of things, at least on how it's been portrayed by me and I'm just going to bring up this subject, since it's kind of like the elephant in the room too, of how a relationship goes is you know, typically when it comes to saving yourself for marriage, like women are taught like you got to definitely like just wait for the right man.
Speaker 2:He's got to be with God, you know same level as you and you're both trying to help each other grow in that aspect in the church community.
Speaker 2:And I mean even guys are taught the same thing too.
Speaker 2:But I don't think it's as strict or strictly like talked about more, because with women I think they're more of like a sacred kind of virginity at that point, when it comes to like marriage and you know, having a family and all that other stuff versus guys like, and I mean you can kind of go like with just dating in general at that point is, if you have a guy that's sleeping around with a lot of women like he's really not going to get frowned upon, but if you've got a girl that's sleeping around with a bunch of guys, then she's judged upon and so with how strict the church is with saving yourself for marriage, I think in a way and again at least, how it came off for me with my last real relationship I had was that it's restriction.
Speaker 2:And so then, when you're restricted for your whole life pretty much, um, it gets to that point where then, all right, now I have a boyfriend or you know, now I have a girlfriend, and you really just like it's almost you're falling into that temptation. It's a lot harder to harder to um, I can't think of the word for it.
Speaker 1:I don't know why I can't think none of us can think of words today, but like it's because this heat's got us tired probably it's very hot and humid in the midwest, so give us a break yeah, I think it's like what, 87 degrees out, right, but it's been almost 100 the past week, that's true which I've enjoyed, but I know you guys don't like the humidity is the worst part.
Speaker 2:The heat I can tolerate, even if that was at 100 degrees. I'm like, okay, it's really hot out, but it's like at least it's not humid.
Speaker 1:We're like that's a thick. That's a classic midwestern saying is the?
Speaker 2:it's not the heat, it's the humidity, it is it's the same thing with like man, I can't wait till like this heat goes away and then it snows. And like, oh man, I can't wait until this heat goes away and then it snows. And I'm like, oh man, I can't wait until the snow goes away. But going back is like. So, after you've been in that restricted mindset that the church has portrayed on saving yourself for marriage, it gets to that point then where, because you've held back for so long, the temptation is stronger and stronger and you have less willpower to hold back, which then so then, what's the right way to go about it?
Speaker 2:because we should be aiming to save ourselves for marriage I mean without getting too like in into it, I guess you could say. But getting into it is, there are things you can do that like won't push that boundary, I would say, but like obviously not. You know, sleeping in the same bed doing like the sims for woohoo and everything like you know not doing that, but like even too, like there are things.
Speaker 1:So you're saying like, yeah, you can make, can make out, but it's crossing, it's crossing the danger zone.
Speaker 2:You would both have to know like, okay, this is the limit, and if either one of us starts getting that temptation, like, immediately cut it off.
Speaker 1:Which isn't always easy.
Speaker 2:It is not always easy, Believe me. I've been there a few times and it's been rough. But I will again, as just an example, with my previous last real relationship that I had is I was with this girl for over a year and she lived in a restricted Christian household, you know, but she helped out the church that we were at and, you know, she knew her morals and values and I knew my morals and values and we helped each other grow. We were going to church more and talking about things a lot more. Communication was really good, including about that subject about saving yourself towards marriage. At that point, and we had moments where, yeah, we were, you know, making out and stuff and things were getting a little heated. But we both, even though we really wanted to go further, because at that point I had already put a ring on it and we were just waiting to get married.
Speaker 2:So where's the harm? So where's the harm at that point?
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:But we both had that where we were like, okay, no, we're doing this the right way because this is how we were taught. And it was hard. That temptation was right because the person's right in front of you at that point and they want you just like you want them, that God's there to help you walk through this and he knows that person is in your life for the right reason and they're there to help you. Then that temptation almost means nothing. At that point you can move on and go forward with it. But again, with how strict the churches are being with that, and even in scripture it says that when you go outside of of church, that's pretty much like God saying, like all right, I taught you what you're supposed to do now are you going to follow that and represent me, or are you going to give into temptation and sin at that point?
Speaker 1:yeah, so then how? How should churches go about it?
Speaker 2:because they should teach that we should wait till marriage yeah, I think they shouldn't be as maybe contradicting as this sounds and you know, because again in scripture you say save yourself till marriage. I think they should not be like directly attacking that, like frequently after frequent you know preaches and stuff where you know, then you know, you know cause they have women's Bible groups, just like they have men's Bible groups, and I'm sure they talk about obviously like different things here and there, but like I feel like in a normal sermon where everybody's together, you know male, female, you know whoever they all are in that group, so they all have an understanding. But maybe I think part of it's too is where if you do have the men's Bible group and you have the women's Bible group, they could be really conflicting against that whole touchy subject too, because there might be a girl in there that's a really good representative of the church in the women's Bible group and she's slamming the hammer down on that whole save yourself till marriage and so you get in that mindset that like I got to save myself, but then you also are human, so you have all the chemicals and hormones and stuff, and then there you go, if you're just strict on that, and you build up that tension at that point and then you just it's going to give in and it's going to end in total like chaos at that point yeah, I mean, people should obviously be taught to flee from sexual sin, because that's what the bible says, but they, I think that in like don't interrupt me, don't interrupt, this is my podcast shut up
Speaker 1:shut up uh, like men's groups. Yeah, they should be teaching men that like for one it's. It's wrong to fall into that, because it is, but how do you stay away from it and then teach them how like to really follow their purpose and their passion? Because I've noticed with me when I'm I don't want to say the word busy, because I still find times to- rest, you're occupied occupied when I'm, when I'm like practicing or working out or any of those things.
Speaker 2:I have less of a desire to fall into that temptation yeah, your mind is in a different place at that point because you're so focused on what your task is that you're doing yeah like for you, like if it's playing bass or if it's going on a walk. Even at that point, yeah, your mind is then able to be clear of those thoughts and everything I think, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think if more of that was taught, versus hey, just don't do this, and this is why it's bad, or like, because there is some science behind, if you sleep with more people, you're gonna it's gonna be harder to be in a relationship down the line, which is true, but instead of just focusing on like why not to do it, they should focus on how not to do it. I don't know what they teach in women's groups, because I don't know what I don't know. Like. I know women can have passions and drive, but it's not as much as men I know with my sister um.
Speaker 3:She was in a what I don't know, andy, what was funny no, I just it's so funny that you bring up the idea of drive because it's, it's, it's, it's something that we I think we don't pay attention to as much. I I know you say that like men have a higher drive than women do, but you'd be surprised.
Speaker 1:I wasn't talking about sex drive in that context.
Speaker 2:I was talking about a drive for ambition.
Speaker 1:But we'll get to that because we definitely know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, believe me, I think all three of us know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what were you going to say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so anyway, what were you going to say? Yeah, so my sister, she was in a women's Bible group for a few years and she would just then go to the next one with whatever church that she was going with, because she was dating different guys and they all went to church. That's one thing I will give her is that she does find guys that are strongly in to Christ and that they're going to help each other grow and they're going to help each other prosper and get through the rough times and all that. I'll give her props for that. But then in the women's Bible groups I mean, it's not a whole lot of info that I know, but like enough to where she's talked about it a little bit and she says they did go over the fact of save yourself of marriage almost several occasions and it was like even if the subject that they were talking about like if it's like um, like how to um feel the embodiment of christ as a woman, kind of thing, and then it would go into a totally different like just not even two seconds later, be like save yourself for marriage, that is the important thing. And she was like, with that particular women's bible group she was like this is just way too like there's no reason to bring that up at that point, right?
Speaker 2:So I feel like to a degree, it is partially the person preaching that it's fault because of the way that they present it or the way maybe they got a different mindset. Like you know, some people get so hurt in the past and they feel so foolish that they didn't save themselves or something happened, so they emphasize it for other women to be like hey, or even guys in that matter. For some men's bible groups too, that can happen but like you need to save yourself for marriage, because they're not going to admit that maybe they made the mistake on falling for that. But they are like just going to say like it's important and this will ruin your life if you don't do it. So then you get that fear mindset at that point and then that is like to scare them into not doing it. You know that kind of thing which that can be. That's a pretty bad tactic, as this is like a fear tactic to get them, to get that implanted in their head. So and again, that can go for guys and women at that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see, I agree, but I'm also torn on that subject because, like I said, it's important that that gets taught.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but just don't consistently push it. At that point I guess you could say it's funny. It's funny for me when you say like that.
Speaker 3:To that you feel like it's been a message that's been like like consistently yeah, it's been like implanted in people's heads consistently. I think for me how I've experienced that sometimes it's like I feel like in some sermons, when it comes to those topics they beat around the bush around it.
Speaker 2:They don't give oh, instead of going straight to the point, they don't give full explanation to everything like yeah, they they're like, yeah, save yourself for marriage.
Speaker 3:Or like, hey, this is wrong or this is the way to that. You should do it, um, but it's like a lot of the time it's, it's almost like it's still taboo in in the church world. You know what I mean, and so I think that also is the one thing that creates the fear, because it's like yeah, maybe we're getting information, but we're there's still some things that we're not right, like there's pieces of the puzzle that are missing yeah, like, don't get me wrong, it's like I think I, as I go about it now I know now what I know.
Speaker 3:But it took for me, it took the experiences you know of what I've gone through to figure that out but again, though, look where it's brought you today too.
Speaker 2:Even at that point now you're married, and I mean I, I haven't really met your wife at this point, all that much but yeah, I'm like I'm sure she's great. You know, you guys have helped each other grow, you guys work as a team and so far everything's going pretty good. Because you've been married for how long now?
Speaker 2:like a year or two, two years two years, yeah, so it was like three that's like a really and that's even a good thing too at that point is if you, if you're like man, it's been so short, like that we've been married but it's like it's felt longer, yeah, that's that to me seems like a really good, healthy relationship at that point.
Speaker 3:Because if it feels longer than it's like your connection at that point, like from all your experiences and her experiences, yeah then the journey that you guys were brought together now is this moment, yeah but that's just my thing too is I feel like it's just not something that I like. I just feel like I haven't been told everything and I feel like that's where. So what do you mean?
Speaker 1:not told everything. Not told everything about what?
Speaker 3:well, not told I just I think if I can go back to like some of the sermons we went through at at, like access, when we used to go to access yeah, like I understand when we had, do you remember when we did like the questionnaire thing, like they?
Speaker 3:they put up questions in the screen and whatnot like yeah, of all the people that could ask, but it's like when it came to certain types of topics, within everything, they were like we don't know how to answer that for you, or like we can't answer that for you, or okay, you know what I mean, because it's like some people actually want to know a certain amount of, but it's like a touchy subject maybe to some people, and so they're like we don't know how to really go about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's touchy or it's just like we don't know.
Speaker 2:It's like that gray area at that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but what would be considered a gray area question? I mean you don't have to give an exact one, but what's something that would be a gray area question that somebody might not know how to answer?
Speaker 3:Well, well, for, for starters, I think, one of the questions that, if I remember, that was very difficult to answer and it was with one of the past, like the older, like the actual one of the pastors, and it was like regarding like, if I do this, but I want to get this far, but is it like a bad thing if I, like, just touch the line, basically, or not even cross the line?
Speaker 2:but you go near it there.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So I feel like if I'm a pastor, I'm going to say no, it's not okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if.
Speaker 1:I'm a pastor. I'm never going to advocate for making. I guess that's a bad example too.
Speaker 3:But like I don't want to ask, I don't even remember the question fully. But I don't even remember the question fully but I want to ask the question that was asked because I remember it was like why would you ask that?
Speaker 1:Or like yeah, like it's a pretty obvious answer and then the pastor can't answer it. And then so now it's like so it's really like there's no middle ground. It's either like oh, we don't know how to talk about this, or we're just going to shove it down until it just becomes too much.
Speaker 3:I still think it's crazy because, as we're taught these things and I mean it's great because we count it as a testimony in the end, right, these are victories or these are things that like, hey, this is how we learned it and we want to teach it. But it's like, even though we're taught through Scripture and through all of our sermons and all that stuff with, with, with, with services at church, people still fail and people are still like well, I don't want to date because of this, or I am having trouble dating anybody because they're not doing this for me, kind of thing. You know what I mean yeah, what do you mean?
Speaker 2:um, they're not doing this for me, so maybe, maybe it's just even finding somebody at that point.
Speaker 3:Like okay.
Speaker 2:I've been abstinent this whole time, kind of thing, because that's what I've been taught. And then it's like, okay, well, I'm like 55 and I still haven't found somebody, because God says he's going to bring you something like that yeah. Like, I've done all this and you're not giving me anything. So why am I going to listen to the sermon if I'm not going to get anything out of it, even though I'm doing the right thing?
Speaker 1:well, and that's the thing about america is god does not promise people marriage no, right you're not born into christianity as a man worthy of being a partner you kind of have to build that right in one way or another, but you're like.
Speaker 2:It's kind of too like you get. Where I'm coming from, though, is it's like you're taught all these teachings from God and then, in a way, some people get a mindset of like, well, if I do this, then I'm definitely going to get it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like don't watch pornography or you're not going to get a woman.
Speaker 1:But then it's like you go like, even though all the people that watch it are the ones that are getting married the ones that are getting married right literally, or they're just famous stars at that point, you know.
Speaker 2:But what I was gonna say corn stars. But we're gonna move on, yeah, yeah, but I'm just saying like no, that, but that's no, we're not censoring you can say porn. Okay, he already said it okay, so no, I didn't even know. He said, I don't know when.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're not doing the stupid corn thing. Okay, I, I can't. That's fair. We are illegitimate, so yeah.
Speaker 2:But like no, so those people there, they'll sit there Like what he was saying is you know you can commit all these sins and then like, next thing, you know, maybe focus on themselves. He's the one struggling and he's the one struggling. But it does also say that just because you follow God doesn't mean that it's going to be a cakewalk. At that point You're going to be tested and tempted with trials of sin at that point.
Speaker 3:The path is long and narrow, as it says.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean like even, too, if, like let's say, for example, you're following the path of Christ, at that point you know you're doing everything, you're staying abstinent, you're not falling into the temptation of pornography, you're doing everything you can, yeah. And then you get this could be the first trial. You get a girl that randomly just, or a guy that just pops into your life and you're like, holy crap, like this is amazing, like you know, and then they're like they're following Christ and they're doing their best, and then all of a sudden, god takes that away from you. And then it's like, so he can take things away to teach you a lesson about things. So, whether in that first relationship that you ever got yourself into, let's say, you guys didn't know how to communicate, or you guys didn't know how to remain abstinent or something like that, and you moved way too quick into the relationship, he'll take that away from you and then he'll give you time to focus on that again, like a reset. And then, when the time is right and he knows because he knows when everything and how everything is going to happen then he'll bring you another person in your life.
Speaker 2:And even, too, it doesn't even have to be a relationship like marriage or whatnot. It could be even a friendship. At that point too, you could be horrible with friends, and then you lose a friend and then a new one comes along and then, well, I messed up on this with me internally, but god gave me this new person, so I'm not gonna mess that up again. But again, as long if you know stuff keeps happening, god's gonna keep testing you. At that point he's gonna keep putting you through trials. And then again, once he knows, and you finally get it, regardless of how old you are because again, you could be in your 30s, 50s, whatever and that right person comes into your life or the things that you were asking for come into your life, then it'll prosper you at the end. So, even with you, with your marriages, you've been through what a couple of relationships and stuff, oh boy.
Speaker 3:And then now here, you are, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So God's brought you your wife and you guys are prospering.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I would say that's a win because you had to go through trials after trials, after trials. Same with you. I mean me and you are both single right now, but we've been put to our trials of women Just saying yeah, heard it here first. But, yeah, we've been put through our trials and now I feel right now, at least in this predicament with me that I'm being put through a trial with this particular woman and so am I going to make the same mistakes that I may have like nobody's perfect.
Speaker 1:You are but you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like kidding no let's say in a safer way, as like you could. Yeah, you will, right, but how? What are you? What are you going to learn and how are you going to make it better? Exactly?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah. So whether like, because again nobody's perfect at that point so and you got to work it, you know, again, again, till you get it right yeah, side note, since we were talking about like if somebody became a porn star uh-huh say she turns her life around and becomes a christian.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh, is it wrong for the christian guy to turn her down for that reason?
Speaker 2:No, Well, yeah, no. In a way, I would say that one. It's not a gray area. It literally is like a yes and no. Yeah, he has the right, because at that point the temptation could come back in her life.
Speaker 3:Or it springs temptation to him.
Speaker 2:Or it springs temptation to him because he could have gone through the same thing too.
Speaker 1:But also, even though she's been made new in Christ, he still doesn't need to be with somebody who lived that life. Right, like there is consequences to your sin, and that is one problem.
Speaker 2:I think that the church shies away, especially when it comes to like sexual sin, like guy or girl, if you sleep with 30 people right it's going to be pretty hard to find a relationship because not a lot of people are going to want to be with somebody who was with that many people Right there's but there's also people too that like, even if a girl is virgin or a guy is virgin, they're not going to want to be with them because they have no experience either so that's the other part too.
Speaker 3:Again, there's the. It is weird that I talk about with expectations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because in that aspect of life too. It's like that's not really because we're all born virgins, you know we all did not like have sex, obviously right away at that point, like everybody starts off virgins. So why are you going to make a decision about maybe this person could be perfect for you and they're virgin. And then, but you have the hots for like Bambino, who's been with like 50 women and you know, but it's because he's experienced at that point. And then same thing with a guy you know you could have it, where you get this like girl that God could put right in front of you, that's virgin and she's, you know, perfect, everything that you could ask for.
Speaker 2:But then you get, you know, jennifer lopez over here, who's been with like 60 guys or something, and he, you know, and then you're, but you're gonna go for her because you know she's experienced at that point. So then there's another trial right there. So are you going to go for looks? Are you going to go for the fact that at least the person has enough morals at that point and followed Christ to, you know, save themselves at that?
Speaker 1:point. Yeah, I feel like the whole like chasing the experienced people is like a very red pill thing, Right Like.
Speaker 2:I mean I'll say this through the relationship, the relationships that I've been through, Like, yes, it does help if they've had experience obviously not to like you know 30 people, but like if they've at least had a little bit of experience, yes, it helps. But again, I dated and was engaged to a virgin woman and I didn't care at that point because I respected her values. She was following the steps through christ at that point and she and I had enough respect for each other and, yeah, I was experienced. I had one other relationship and I I get messed up.
Speaker 2:I was in a friends with benefits for like four years whoa, yeah, that's gross it was, and it was the first and only time I'll do it, because it was absolutely disgusting. Um, but again, we're all young and we all make mistakes. At that point, Well, you do believe it or not.
Speaker 2:At that time that had experience that I was interested in. But then, as soon as my now ex-fiance was in the picture and I first met her and I, she told me that she was virgin and she I was basically her first boyfriend. She only went on one date and it went like the same day it ended because the guy was only after one thing and he didn't care that she was virgin and that she had tattoos and whatever else. But I but you get that person that sees past that and then, you're, you're good to go.
Speaker 2:You know it's like cause. Then that again is another trial that God's putting you through is like okay, they're not experienced this is all new to them. Can you help them prosper Like they can help you prosper at that?
Speaker 1:point. Yeah, because when you're married you learn what each other likes.
Speaker 2:So experience really doesn't matter, because if you just jump straight into sex in a relationship, it's not a relationship. And you're going to overlook red flags Exactly exactly, exactly Because, yeah, they got a smoking bot, but they could literally be a serial killer, like you know, jeffrey donovan, you always go for, like the extremes, no, but you know what I'm just saying, that smoking hot buds, but it's true, lambos or she could be a serial killer.
Speaker 2:Well, because think about it though, because we've already established that you know, like, how women look through guys. Like they can still look at a guy for looks, but they look at them through a different. They have more of the emotional side of things, where guys are more visual. So, yeah, when I say hot bods, it's like, okay, the guy is looking at hot bods, or even a woman can look at hot bods, but then you get also the guy that looks at the emotional side of things. Look at hot bods, but then you get also the guy that looks at the emotional side of things. Maybe he's less attracted to what you look like and you look like the pillsbury dough boy, but you're perfect in every way, kind of thing oh, that's another thing that I want.
Speaker 1:That's a great segue to the next yeah section is the size matter not in that way to morgan and morgan, the law firm it does they're the biggest law firm um, but that's not what I was going with. Yeah, we're talking about uh, what was it? Oh, physical attraction. Yeah, I think that the church dumbs that down.
Speaker 2:I think it's more important than they say it is, but I don't think it's everything yeah, because they don't want to, because now, especially with today, like everybody's sensitive, because you don't want to sit there and be like, yeah, you know, you over there, the 600 pound life t-shirt on that weighs 600 pounds. Like again, you may or may not. You may or may not find somebody because you're big. But this guy over here, chiseled chin and everything looking like the crimson chin, he's perfect and he will find a christian woman. I've never heard any pastor say that but you know what I?
Speaker 2:mean it's like they don't really go about they.
Speaker 1:They beat around the bush yeah, nobody's gonna say that like that, because first of all that might be a little rude, but right to a lot to lie to people yeah and say that it shouldn't matter what don't matter is you're doing them a disservice right, because it really, to a degree it does matter yes, well, yeah, because if, if I'm talking to a girl and she's awesome and she's got a great personality, but she doesn't, she's not attractive. She's going to be my friend, right, only my friend right.
Speaker 2:And then same thing with girls right now too is like you know you could have like a guy that makes you laugh and like you know they're there for you and everything. But if they're really big or they just don't take care of themselves kind of thing I wasn't extreme, I said but if they're really big or they just they look gross, like you know, then they're gonna be in the friend zone indefinitely.
Speaker 1:At that point, yeah yeah, yeah, so it's, it's dumbed down, but it's hard because it seems like people always want to go to extremes. So then now they're saying, well, looks, don't matter at all. But it's like you have to find that in between of, yeah, they matter, but they shouldn't be everything.
Speaker 3:Right, it shouldn't be like your main.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because somebody can be really good looking, but again have some major red flags Right, like maybe she's a serial killer or something, maybe she will be, I don't know that really is how it pretty much is summed up too, and I don't think again, again.
Speaker 2:That is a touched up subject at churches.
Speaker 1:They just kind of beat around the bush with it and it's not realistic and it makes people feel bad, because then you're like well, I don't really like her. And it's like well, why don't you like her?
Speaker 2:and it's like well, she's got a dimple on her cheek or something like that, and it's like okay, everybody else does so, do you so? Why, are you judging?
Speaker 1:I don't have dimples, I don't either.
Speaker 2:I'll say this too from personal experiences. I used to be the guy in my early 20s that I would basically like. The kind of girl that I would want and I'd only look for was blonde, had like a really good toned body, whatnot. So basic, right, I know, and not a serial killer either. Um, but that's what I would be looking for, because it was like I don't care if they're a red flag or not, and you know I'm inexperienced at that point. I just want a good looking blonde woman and a little bit shorter than me and everything else. And then, as the years went by, what and again with the experience, the crunch was so satisfying at the mic, um, when it came down to that. So my first girlfriend, for example really good looking girl, she had pretty much everything I wanted, but she had dyed hair.
Speaker 2:But I at that point Didn't care because she was a good looking girl at that point and after the crap that I I will admit I put myself through with her and I am not the only one at fault and she is not the only one at fault for why the relationship died at that point. But I learned after her maybe I shouldn't have that kind of expectation, because that taught me if you get a good looking girl like that and you just focus on the looks like a good figure, eight and everything, you're going to probably end up hurting her or hurting yourself at the end of the day or both or both, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then that's when, again, my ex-fiance came around at the time and yeah, she wasn't the best-looking girl, wow.
Speaker 3:Here's the thing.
Speaker 2:Let me back that up.
Speaker 3:It's not as harsh as what I'm trying to make it.
Speaker 1:Say no filter for anything you're saying To me though here's the thing A bigger pop filter for your mic.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing. Let me backtrack on that, because that did sound really bad.
Speaker 3:So to there's still some hurt feelings here.
Speaker 1:That's why no, no she's not gonna listen to this. No but no I.
Speaker 2:I've had no contact with her for such a long time, but she so to me. At first, when I looked at the comparison, I guess, between my first girlfriend and her, I'm like she is not as like anything remotely comparable to like as good as the first one. And that's still. I know. I know it's not, I'm trying to say because I'm really bad at wording and I don't mean it in the way that I'm saying just skip this.
Speaker 1:No, we're not we're doing it.
Speaker 2:They're no longer in my life, so and again, they're not gonna I understand that, but no, but here let me again I apologize.
Speaker 1:I'm out of words. I apologize to the audience at hand.
Speaker 2:I don't mean it as brutally as it may come off.
Speaker 3:You're about to be a hater, it's just I know I am it's the only way that I do not bring this guy.
Speaker 2:It's the only way that I can word it in my brain and have it translate out here. But I can kind of back up some things.
Speaker 1:So at this point it's the sugar coating, that's more. I know it is ugly bro.
Speaker 2:I mean not really.
Speaker 2:But the thing is is this though so I looked at myself at that point and I was a bigger guy, like I wasn't 300 pounds and whatnot, but I was getting close to that. I was like maybe 280 or something, but I looked at it as this, as I'm like. So that's when I think God was bringing me that teaching of okay, so it shouldn't matter what the girl looks like Like yeah, she doesn't have to be a 10 out of 10 like the last one, but she could be like an 8 out of 10 or a 9 out of 10, whatever, but her morals are what matters at that point is what I was trying to get to.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Just again, I'm very bad at wording because my brain just kind of just spits out whatever it's thinking yeah, you picked the worst path.
Speaker 1:I know you really did, I know To get there.
Speaker 2:I know I did so mean I apologize to the audience.
Speaker 1:It's like trying to rock climb up Mount Everest instead of going up the trail.
Speaker 2:That's what you did, I know, I know. But to me in my eyes at that point I knew that she was the most beautiful girl. In my eyes, that's what mattered. I didn't care about anything else. You know, anybody could come in with like crooked teeth, whatever, you know, maybe they have a bald spot on their head, something I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 3:But again, it's just that stefan worries about, by the way, everyone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, but if they, honestly to me, have that quality of they have their morals in line, they have a set path, they're willing to help me grow like I'm willing to help them grow, I would rather have them in my life, you miss the shots you don't take at that point, the shots you don't take at that point. So if god's bringing me this person, yeah, they may not be everything that my ideal man brain thinks of, but she's there for a reason at that point. Right, and even with my last girlfriend that I had, she was and again this one I actually am true on she was a bigger set girl, but at that time again, she had it is, it is but, I'm just saying she was a bigger set girl.
Speaker 2:But she also had her morals in line. Me and her had been through the same kind of experiences at that point and we both had that same mindset of things and I at that again I looked at myself and was like who am I to judge? If I'm still a bigger guy and she's a bigger girl, why is it? If she is coming again into my life at that point? Why am I going to turn that down? Because she's bigger? You know, I have no room to judge because I'm a bigger guy at that point would you have room to judge if you weren't a bigger guy?
Speaker 2:I mean, as long as the uh, the sim and roll twister thing, uh, at the store, you know, could pop properly, but you know, I don't know where I was going with that, so I'm just gonna, we're gonna move on, yeah, but you get, where I'm saying is like you can't judge others at that point if you can't look at yourself and be like what's wrong with me? Because if you have that self Next time, lead with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then end with that too. Well, you could probably edit it to be like right at the disclaimer no, I'm leaving it at that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this whole testimony of yours it's all there.
Speaker 2:But you guys understand where I'm going with it. You can't really just judge somebody else if you can't look at yourself in the mirror and be like, okay, well, I'm Mr Perfect, and it's like, no, you're not.
Speaker 3:Well, I am. Oh, are you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean compared to me and you, he's the one that's married.
Speaker 3:So I mean, that's true, that is true, I'm far from perfect boys, but but yeah, as far as, like, experiences go, that's that's. Yeah, yeah, I think overall. I for me, I guess looks do matter, but yeah, they haven't always been like the main thing, I never thought any girl I ever dated was bad looking. You know, as stefan might say, you know if they're, I didn't.
Speaker 2:I didn't think any of them were serial killers they come if they come off like an exploded can of cinnamon rolls.
Speaker 3:Precisely. I do think looks matter, but it shouldn't be the thing you lead on. For me, it's obviously the way they portray themselves to be. I dated one girl that was very, very disorganized. For me, I'm a very organized person.
Speaker 2:You're like OCD kind of thing.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't say OCD, but yes. But I'm the kind of guy that I'm married now and I still do the laundry. I do both our laundry I do mine and my wife's but this girl leaving clothes everywhere.
Speaker 3:I feel like that's most girls, if I'm honest with you this one was by far the worst, because everyone else I ever dated in my life they were fine. But like there's just clothes everywhere and like you know how, like the basic thing where like a girl would have like a full body mirror, like attached to the the door or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah to the door.
Speaker 3:well, this thing is like tipped over and like leaning on the wall and doing all these other things and like there's like paper plates on her desk and all this stuff from like food she ate.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh yeah.
Speaker 3:So it was for me. That's very hard. So I think for me it's like what's more important is definitely like portrayal of oneself.
Speaker 2:But yeah.
Speaker 3:But again, going back to what Stefan says, who am I to judge?
Speaker 2:I mean again, I'm a very clean person, I'm very organized, but I shouldn't judge, and even, too, through those experiences it's like then you get taught that, yeah, I should not be judging them if I have my own flaws at that point, and then you'll be led onto the right path eventually.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but no.
Speaker 1:I can't get over the things that you were saying about your exes. It's so funny.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying you know, you know where you belong is the eastern orthodox church, the guys with no filter that's where you need to start, but it makes it so much better though, but in a worse way, in a positive way at the same time. It's just. That's just how it comes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're definitely gonna have haters and lovers oh, nobody's in between with you.
Speaker 2:This is why I'm single ladies. Oh, they know. Yeah, you're like, yeah, this guy, all right Now we can talk about drive the sex drive.
Speaker 3:Yes, okay.
Speaker 1:Because I think that in church specifically, it's usually put on the guys who have the high sex drive and there's a lot of problems that come with that type of rhetoric, because because then you're the one that make like the females, like the innocent one that's gonna, she has the most control and she doesn't have that much drive. And then yeah, so if, if, if boundaries are being broke, whose fault fault?
Speaker 2:is it the man?
Speaker 1:It's always the guy's fault and then they can just decide to end the relationship because they're like, oh, he keeps breaking the boundaries and they side with the women and they never get told like, hey, you might be a problem in this scenario, are you sure you're not insinuating, are you sure you're not doing anything that causes this Right?
Speaker 2:yeah, because everybody knows it takes two to tango at that point. So women are again, men are attracted to that physical attraction. And you know, if your girl looks at you in a weird way with her dilated eyes and she's like gazing in dude you, she's looking at you with them eyes and you're just like I can't help it.
Speaker 1:No, they're definitely dilated, you're correct. It's just, I would never have thought about that.
Speaker 3:I also. Yeah, you give us the full details.
Speaker 1:It's just like so quippy that I can't.
Speaker 2:Like comprehend, like how quick it was. Yeah, it's just like.
Speaker 1:I don't know how your brain works faster than mine does. Brain works faster than mine does. Um, but then also with that, it's basically saying that women don't want it so when you get married, you're basically his sex slave. Whenever he wants it, you have to give it to him and it's just like yeah women want it too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they just need to be held more accountable, I think, because each relationship she's going to get in, if she's never told that boundaries being broke are also her fault, then nothing is ever she's going to get in. If she's never told that boundaries being broke are also her fault then nothing is ever going to change.
Speaker 2:She's going to go on her merrily way like I've done nothing wrong in my relationships. That's why they ended.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's going to be like I just keep finding all these bad guys.
Speaker 2:They're all horny all the time and it's just like I don't know what I'm doing. Right, yeah, You're a woman.
Speaker 3:That's right. Yeah, you're a woman, that's what she's doing. That's definitely a big issue. For, yeah, I think, for I will say for the beginning of the relationship with my wife, like we've, we've, we all fall short. So we've fallen short plenty of times and in the relationship as we, as we were dating, um, and as we were going through our marriage counseling it was. It was crazy, because I felt like I was always the one being looked at when we're explaining these things and it's like, well, andy, what can, what can you do to be better? I'm like, so I'm, I'm feeling like, well, I'm carrying both of the weight, like it's not. It sometimes it didn't feel like a two person, me kind of thing, and so that made it very, very hard. And, yeah, I can say that it makes it so difficult that the church decides to put it on one side more than anything, and then that is kind of something that ends up ruining the beginning of dating for a lot of people.
Speaker 3:That's why I'm saying, too, women have this expectation. Well, if I date this guy, is this going to be a problem? Like are we going to have situations where we just can't handle ourselves?
Speaker 2:or right, like we can't be around each other for too long, because then it'll bring that temptation in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah what about like the way they dress?
Speaker 2:uh, that can. That can definitely play a factor, because if you get some skim and I'm talking, talking both sides yeah men can dress from the from the viewpoint of a man. Yeah, there we go if you get a girl that comes in with a skimpy dress, that her butt's hanging out and she's sitting there wearing a crop top, where like under boob is showing, and she's going into church and she's all like I'm a. I'm a great girl that believes in god some of them dress that way they do yeah I'm surprised too.
Speaker 2:I've seen it, it's just and that's the thing, though, is like and then okay, but don't. Then they're like don't sexualize me and don't like give into temptation. But then it's like okay, then why are you hanging out with your butt, like from the bottom of your dress, then literally protruding the fact of don't give into temptation and don't sexualize me? It's like don't be dressing like that, then I get it that guys need to have self-control.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying that they can't dress like that right but guys do need to have self-control and women need to have self-control about how objectifying that they're portraying themselves at that point I.
Speaker 1:I think it's a both and situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because guys can wear like a skin tight t-shirt. No, I'm saying like.
Speaker 1:I'm saying like yeah, yeah, oh yeah. I'm just saying like, yes, guys need to learn how to control themselves and also control their eyes. Like, yes, guys need to learn how to control themselves and also control their eyes. But if you're a woman and you're going to dress that way, you are going to attract the guys who don't have self-control and the creepy ones.
Speaker 2:Because they're the ones that are looking for that Right. And then you can't get mad when they approach you, or you let them in and stuff happens at that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because there's always going to be creeper guys that are going to that want are attracted to only your body at the church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah. You think you just walk into church and they're just sitting there and they're like, oh yeah, praise God. And they're just not looking at the girl next door and she's sitting there wearing a crop top or whatever else, and she's like, you know, the typical thing, and then just like, yeah no I'm a good christian girl, and then he's just gonna be like praise god, like that's just how it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah so I think it's like you can't, and they need to have they need to have a woman teach women how to dress instead of having like men, because it always comes off as like controlling or whatever it's like. Have a woman who's brave enough to tell them hey maybe when you come to church, don't dress like you just came back from the club right like don't, what are you doing?
Speaker 2:right like don't be like suit. You don't have to be like suit and tie, but like right, just wear something casual. Yes, a little more modest, like this is fine, like what we're wearing, like you know, jersey t-shirt stefan, please do not show up to church with a Jersey.
Speaker 3:I can think of one guy at at at church.
Speaker 2:Do you want me to show you what's underneath?
Speaker 3:No, oh my God.
Speaker 2:Anxiety.
Speaker 3:I can think of one guy at church. I would really appreciate his Jersey, though.
Speaker 2:I already got complimented on it when I was at the store getting the Arizona.
Speaker 3:Oh H no, got complimented on it when I was at the store getting the arizona t's and stuff. Oh no, well, there too, actually. But at our old church, our good friends at res, I can't think of.
Speaker 2:I mean but would you rather see like a jersey at church or see something that like I?
Speaker 1:have daddy issues. Oh, I know, yeah but you get.
Speaker 2:Where I'm getting at, though, is like, yeah, we're joking about the jersey, but like, would you rather see a jersey being worn praising god or something that says I have mommy issues?
Speaker 1:okay, stephan, it's not like those are the only two options no, I know, but like, hey, what do you? What are you gonna wear to church?
Speaker 3:you have a jersey, or I have mommy issues, sure I think we need to go back to the whole monochromatic, like everybody just needs to wear like, like skirts that go down to the ankles, and men to full-on suit and ties yeah, but then you get those guys with foot fetishes.
Speaker 2:So then are you just telling, like women to like cover up everything. At that point I'm just because there are guys that do that, I'm just saying ah, it's 100 fact. There was a guy at walmart the other day that was sitting there and there was a girl wearing like hey dudes or something like that, you know, and he's sitting there like in the line. I swear to God, he was sitting there just eyeballing.
Speaker 1:And you know that he was just looking at her feet.
Speaker 2:He literally was looking at her feet, and she got creeped out and so she had to move.
Speaker 1:I suppose it is Walmart, right, I was going to say it's.
Speaker 2:Walmart. Well, it's a petting zoo in there every day.
Speaker 1:You find a new animal. You know. Okay, back to the topic at hand. Yeah, women have sex drive too. Yes, they do.
Speaker 2:And sometimes they, I feel like to a degree, I feel like they can definitely control it a lot better than a guy, I would think.
Speaker 1:I don't know To a degree To a degree.
Speaker 3:In my oh, we're going to get a Caleb testimony.
Speaker 1:I'm not getting into, maybe not specific situations, but in my experience with women in the church they push the boundaries either the same, if not more, than I would, and so I don't know if they. But also I don't want to hear about how they have more self-control.
Speaker 2:I would say, though, here's the thing it can tie back to the way that they were taught about saving themselves towards marriage, because they have that implemented in their head with either fear or whatever, and they're like, well, if I do this, but then again that temptation is even stronger at that point. So then they see you and they're like dang, and then they just want to ask you out, or they want to flirt, and then push the boundaries, and then they could even, at that point, be manipulating you and being like, oh well, it was his fault, because he was just so much of a horn dog it wasn't even funny yeah, I mean, that's kind of what has happened in the past with me, where it's like they blame me for that, and then it's it's like but you're the one who led me on at that point, you're the one who was pushing the buttons.
Speaker 2:So really, it's not just me you have to blame, it's you, because it again takes two to tango right and they'll never change that because they don't want to hurt women's feelings.
Speaker 1:And then they're going to wonder why? Because, like I've been wondering why there's more women attending church than men and now I'm starting to kind of see why. Because it's it's kind of anti-men.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for the eastern orthodox which is the church that you belong in I just say I feel like the unfiltered stuff is better because at least you're getting like a better perspective and like it is.
Speaker 1:It's just funny yeah, like for me it's mostly funny, but yeah, but there's other people that I will say the, the, the, saying that she's basically ugly. Yeah, was a bit harsh it was, but it's it's done now yeah, it's out there. It's just again my brain processes things faster, and sometimes stuff just slips out and I'm like, oh sometimes yeah, sometimes the thoughts are a little faster than the brain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so then it's like whoops-a-daisy, because that wasn't meant to sound like that.
Speaker 1:It meant to sound something a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but, stephan, even your thought-out response was pretty bad it was.
Speaker 1:It was very bad.
Speaker 2:Again, I admit that I apologize, there's a lot going on up here.
Speaker 1:Okay, the last thing I want to talk about is I think that group dating is dumb.
Speaker 2:Group dating. This doesn't have to be a long, like the double dates kind of thing. No, double dates are fine.
Speaker 1:No group dating is. You're a friend group and you only hang out with the person that you're interested in in groups to make sure you're not tempted to do anything. That's a real thing. I don't think it works. Not tempted to do anything I, that's a real thing. I don't think it works. No, it doesn't no, because how are you gonna find, how are you gonna have any romantic connection when you're always surrounded by people? Exactly like it just can't happen. And if you can't be alone anywhere, you have a major self-control problem exactly.
Speaker 2:I don't think I've ever experienced that anywhere?
Speaker 1:I don't I've just heard about it, yeah huh, it's. It's really weird um it is because you can't be vulnerable with someone when there's other people around like having a conversation with just you and I like it's never gonna be it's never gonna be the same, as if all three of us in the room or like you and I, aren't gonna talk about the exact same things right stephan is here right.
Speaker 2:Whatever. We all have our own different things that we feel more comfortable sharing with somebody else we're just like that one person at a time, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because he's not gonna tell he's not gonna tell me what you guys were talking about, and then you're not gonna tell him what you talk about, or vice versa never, never tell you. So I mean, even though he thinks you're fat, but I mean, what huh? We're gonna move on, yeah.
Speaker 1:So anyway, and you guys have anything else to say about that or have any other topics.
Speaker 2:Otherwise we can I honestly call it quits I mean, really, at that point I I don't really think again. Just I guess, finishing off the group dating thing, I think it's just a weird thing and you can still be tempted at some point, because it's just like in the typical hollywood movie fashion is you can be in a group and it's like, oh, I'm interested in this person, but we're in a group, and then they just, you know, scamper off in the beach and then the shark comes up and eats the girl or whatever in the lake all right, perfect time to put the plug on this one.
Speaker 1:Andy, you got anything I.
Speaker 3:I have nothing on the group setting because I've never experienced it, but as I can see it with all the details, I don't think it would work. Yes, because temptation is still there and at the same time, like it's also, I think, for one without that romantic connection, it can still cause problems. Yeah, because it's like then you're only looking for the romantic side of things through possible physical contact, if you get the chance that's true, yeah, yeah, because you're not going to be like, hey, let's sneak off and go talk to each other exactly, yeah nobody's thinking that way no, yeah, but I think that's the only thing I can think of overall.
Speaker 3:I've just I don't have any experience with it, so I have no knowledge on it yeah all right, well, perfect.
Speaker 1:That was a great conversation filled with lots of ideas yes, it Everybody stay away from serial killers.
Speaker 2:Yep and sharks and sharks Don't go to dates on the beach. And ugly people.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. All right, thanks everybody for listening and have a blessed week Woo, bye Woo.