33. Alcohol, Tobacco, and Other Vices. We Also Talk About Ethans Trail Expedition and The Dangers of The Charismatic Movement. With Ethan Schutter

Have you ever wondered if the wine Jesus made could rival today’s finest vintages? We embark on a curious exploration that spans biblical teachings, personal caffeine anecdotes, and the intriguing life of a rideshare driver. Our discussions wander through the ancient winemaking processes, contemplating the potency and flavor of wines from biblical times. 

From the historical journey of wine, we shift our focus to modern-day health concerns, diving into the addictive allure of vapes, cigars, and fast food. We ponder the cultural phenomena that intertwine with these habits. With personal stories, we highlight the challenges of quitting vaping and underscore the importance of healthier choices, all while considering how these habits gradually impact our well-being.

Our conversation takes a spiritual turn as we tackle the complexity of beliefs, faith, and divine healing. We explore whether God heals every time and reflect on the charismatic movement’s possible implications within Christianity. Throughout, we navigate the intricacies of church leadership, moral accountability, and the sometimes controversial prosperity gospel. With candid reflections, we emphasize nurturing authentic relationships with faith, offering a compassionate lens on leadership within the church community. Join us on this multifaceted exploration that seamlessly weaves together questions of faith, health, and history. 

*It ended up being a catholic monastery

Chapters

• 0:01 Discussion on Wine, Driving, and Etiquette
• 13:56 Ancient Wine-Making Process and Modern Alcohol
• 26:21 Risks of Vaping and Fast Food
• 41:29 Climbing Multiple Mountains in One Day
• 55:31 Tales From the Trails
• 1:06:17 Interpreting New Testament Scripture
• 1:13:53 Exploring Beliefs on Healing and Antichrist
• 1:23:42 Charismatic Movement and Antichrist Theory
• 1:37:30 Misconceptions About Christianity and Prosperity
• 1:43:40 Staying True to the Gospel
• 1:50:02 Successorship and Moral Issues in Churches

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

How good do you think the wine was that Jesus made? I was asked this question by a pastor on Saturday when I was hanging out with Lawrence and some of the guys Because a couple of the guys that we hang out with are pastors and one of them was like dude, you just totally asked that question on the podcast. It's an interesting question.

Speaker 2: 0:22

Probably like $100 bottles. That's it, yeah, yeah, I don't know?

Speaker 1: 0:30

do you think that it could have been? Do you think that there's wine that exists today that's better, or do you think those stuff that he made was the top notch? It's never going to get better than that no, I think we make better now.

Speaker 2: 0:43

Yeah, no, I think we make better now. Yeah, no, I just, uh, I don't know I. Well, they say the choice wine was like really good, right in that story back then yeah, in the story they say it's like why'd you guys bring out the wine after the good wine, after we went through all the other wine? Usually you come at the end right, so it has to be really good.

Speaker 1: 1:07

Wait, you have the good wine first.

Speaker 2: 1:09

Yeah, because you're sober. You're sober, so you have the good wine, and then you end with the crappier wine because you don't taste as much.

Speaker 1: 1:17

So Jesus permitted not being sober.

Speaker 2: 1:20

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:22

Yeah, it's crazy. That is crazy. Uh, I think it because I was actually just tap, I was actually just having this discussion with somebody that I work with. It's like what is drunkenness? Because, like in proverbs, it does say like a man drinks and he's filled with joy, and it says that as if it's like a good thing.

Speaker 2: 1:48

Yeah. But then it's like non sober minded.

Speaker 1: 1:52

So like blackout or like spinning.

Speaker 2: 1:55

No, I mean, yeah, I think you could get like, if you don't drink often, you could have two beers and be drunk.

Speaker 1: 2:02

But is that a sin? Uh, be drunk, but is that a sin, like if it's a special occasion type thing and you just kind of get that buzz going? Is that necessarily like a bad thing? Hmm, I scratched my chin, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 2:19

I don't know. I would say yes, because you're not sober minded and God calls us to more than that, but I don't think it's like a sin against somebody else, it's more like a sin against yourself. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 2:34

Yeah, I just know, because it says don't partake in drunkenness, as if like. I wonder if it's something that means like don't do it all the time, but if you do it as like a celebratory thing, I'm not advocating for that, I'm just wondering if that's what it means, that's an interesting theory. Very thought.

Speaker 2: 2:58

I don't know.

Speaker 1: 3:00

It's also a good excuse If you're somebody who yeah, stop making excuses.

Speaker 2: 3:05

Be better, you'll be better. It's also a good excuse If you're somebody who, yeah, stop making excuses for your life, be better, you be better, hold on let me crack this Red Bull.

Speaker 1: 3:13

You already gotta say it. What Crack? A cold one with the boys. Oh, cold one with the boys. You didn't even say crack one, but I'm gonna pass.

Speaker 2: 3:24

Okay. Got to have some.

Speaker 1: 3:36

How are you able to drink?

Speaker 2: 3:37

that so late? I don't know, I just bought it, it's 6 o'clock.

Speaker 1: 3:39

I would be up all night.

Speaker 2: 3:43

Yeah, I'll be fine. I can't't do that I usually stay up pretty late. Now like what's late, 11, 12 yeah, that's.

Speaker 1: 3:52

that's pretty late, but if I drink an americano yesterday at 2 pm and I was up till 3 30 this morning morning, so I barely got any sleep.

Speaker 2: 4:03

What'd you do with your extra time?

Speaker 1: 4:06

Laid there and tried to go to sleep. Nothing yeah it just didn't work out. You know one of those things I can probably have.

Speaker 2: 4:15

yeah, I can have that and be totally fine. I mean maybe a little bit later than normal, but not much.

Speaker 1: 4:25

And you'll still fall asleep around 11 or midnight. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 4:32

And I drove all day cause I was trying to like pick myself up a little bit. I drove like from 12 until six.

Speaker 1: 4:39

Do you get tired after driving for a while?

Speaker 2: 4:42

Yeah, your mind does, cause it's just mindless, you know.

Speaker 1: 4:46

Yeah, I've noticed that when I go and drive for work to the east side of the state, always on the way back I got to stop at a rest stop and just sit there or lay there and take like a nap A little sleepy, a little sleepy.

Speaker 2: 5:00

Yeah, a little sleepy.

Speaker 1: 5:01

A little sleepy.

Speaker 2: 5:03

Yeah, but then, oh, I was going to tell you. Well, I already did tell you, but my last, I'll tell you again. My last drive, like what is that? You have a bobblehead of yourself.

Speaker 1: 5:21

No, everybody thinks that it's a pop figure of Sting. Oh the singer. From who the Police?

Speaker 2: 5:33

Andy got that for me.

Speaker 1: 5:35

But he got it for me because he thinks it looks like me.

Speaker 2: 5:39

Blonde hair and it's a bass Kind of a neat little trinket to have sitting there.

Speaker 1: 5:44

And it's gay. You know, I'm just kidding. Wow, it is very happy you're right.

Speaker 2: 5:52

Yep. Anyways, back to the story. Yes, I was giving my last ride and this lady had a stop at Popeye's and usually there's like a timer, so I can wait like five minutes. Sorry, I'm talking about lift driving.

Speaker 1: 6:07

if, if you didn't know right is do you drop her off there for her to get food?

Speaker 2: 6:13

yeah, she goes in, she gets food, okay, and so I even started the timer like late. Um, like I let her go in and then I started the timer. So it was like already like a half a minute late and I waited five minutes. And then I was like, well, I can wait a little bit longer. So I waited like two more minutes, so seven minutes at this time, this point, and I can wait five minutes and then just cancel the ride and still get paid for that ride.

Speaker 1: 6:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:40

So after seven minutes I was like, yeah, I'm out of here, I'm not waiting Like. So after seven minutes I was like, yeah, I'm out of here, I'm not waiting. Like I got to go, you know like you should have ordered it beforehand, or what becomes?

Speaker 1: 6:50

of the person who went into Popeye's.

Speaker 2: 6:53

They stay there forever. They have to order another ride to wherever they were going.

Speaker 1: 7:00

What if they order another one and then you pull up again?

Speaker 2: 7:04

That could happen, like it's possible, but I turned off my app because I knew I was coming here, yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:12

There's no way you were being late to this.

Speaker 2: 7:14

No.

Speaker 1: 7:14

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 7:16

Oh, I got another story. Can I tell another story? Of course, okay, I was Lyft driving the other day and this is the first time this has ever happened.

Speaker 1: 7:26

I, um, I was Lyft driving the other day, and this is the first time this has ever happened. I told somebody to get out of my vehicle.

Speaker 2: 7:30

Yeah, okay, what happened? So she comes up, she has like a Walker or whatever and I'm like, yeah, you know, whatever, like I can put that in my trunk. I asked her like three times hey, do you want me to put this in the trunk, like I want to make? Sure she wants it in the trunk and she's like, oh, let me grab my purse, whatever. I'm like, okay, yeah, whatever, it doesn't matter. And then she like looks at me and she's like, can we stop and get somewhere to eat? Like really snooty, like right.

Speaker 1: 7:58

Yeah, was she older.

Speaker 2: 7:59

Yeah, she was like 45. Okay, so like not super, super old, but 45 or 50 middle-aged yeah, um, and then she was like, and I was like, like, no, I can't, I can't stop unless, like you, add it to the list yeah like I have to go all the way there, like I can't stop, and she's like, oh, then I'll just starve then.

Speaker 2: 8:22

And she like opens my door and gets in and she still didn't answer my question like, do you want this in the in the car? And this is like late night, like 12 30. I was driving late but I was like like I, I made a decision right there. I was about to like lift it up and put it in the trunk, but then I was like no, I'm, I'm not taking this lady.

Speaker 2: 8:45

Like if you're that rude off the bat, I'm not taking you yeah, so I took the walker and put it like, back on the sidewalk, got in my car and she makes another comment. She's like. She's like, yeah, I'll just start. She said the same like phrase again like I'll just starve, like whatever, I don't need food. And I was like, yeah, you can get out of my car now. Like, just like that like. And I said it twice. I like, yeah, you can get out of my car now. Like, just like that like. And I said it twice. I was like you can get out of my car. Like I'm not taking you. And I canceled the ride, obviously because I'm not gonna like take her money right or whatever.

Speaker 1: 9:17

And what was her?

Speaker 2: 9:17

response to that, she was like I need my walk because she thought I put it in her, my back, and I was like it's right there, it's right there, it's right there, you can go get it. And it's not. You know, maybe she thinks it's because of the walk or whatever, or because she's disabled, but that's not what it is. It's like if you're super rude to me for no reason.

Speaker 1: 9:39

Especially right off the bat.

Speaker 2: 9:41

Yeah right off the bat, like you're having already a bad day and you're taking out on me and you know I'm not going to get a five star regardless because, like literally from the first conversation, I know that yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:53

I'm not going to get a tip, like there's no upside from here. I might as well not take you Like. And also, I guess, like I can handle like drunk people, I I can handle like drunk people, I can, I can handle like loud people, whatever, but I'm just not gonna deal with super rude. Yeah, and it's like I'm gonna hear that it was like an eight mile drive. It's like I'm gonna hear that for the next eight miles, bro, like I'm not, I'm not doing this, you know, or or like 20 minutes, whatever.

Speaker 1: 10:24

Yeah, for sure, that would be awful.

Speaker 2: 10:26

And then she was like, oh, I better not get charged. And I was like you won't, you know, I'm canceling it.

Speaker 1: 10:31

You're not canceling it. Get out of my car.

Speaker 2: 10:33

Yeah, get out of my car and that's the first time I've ever had to do that out of like I don't know done 250 rides since you've been back. Yeah, that's a lot, I feel like uh, in like three weeks yeah all the people you've met yeah, and, like I said, I've had drunk people in my car. I'm fine, you know like it doesn't bother me they're a little bit louder.

Speaker 2: 10:59

Pick up people who sin yeah, dude, I'm saving them, but you know, not in that sense I mean, I'm saving them from driving yeah, right hurting somebody else or getting a dui, which would be yeah, bad to go to jail if they even give those out anymore they're just giving them out on the street, like here you get a dui, you get one, we're gonna meet our quota yeah, so I don't know. Most of most of the time it's like 99 of the time it's super chill though like super easy, and I I got a ride like two minutes later.

Speaker 2: 11:39

It's like there's not a starvation for rides either especially at that time because this was, it was on saturday night, sunday morning and it was a time change and that's like the biggest bar night oh yeah, because as soon as one o'clock happens, or when it's two o'clock and it goes back to one. Yeah, you get an extra hour out, yeah that's always crazy and they actually let you do that too. Yeah, it sucks if you work.

Speaker 1: 12:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:08

You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 12:09

Oh man, the dog next door is barking. Hopefully I don't think it's as bad as the one upstairs.

Speaker 2: 12:16

If you work, you're like, yeah, I got an eight hour shift. No, you got a nine hour shift, right yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:21

That would be awful, or they just have someone come in for that one hour. Nobody does that they don't do that, but I bet that guy would make a lot of money if he was a bartender yeah because if, if it's the last hour, that's when people are gonna be going crazy yeah, plus you get.

Speaker 2: 12:38

yeah, they must get paid a lot more because I mean they get an extra hour and then they get all the extra tips and stuff.

Speaker 1: 12:47

So I always thought about being a bartender, but I don't know if it would conflict with Christianity. Really, why? Well, because you're serving people alcoholic, aren't you?

Speaker 2: 13:01

That's not really your, that's their choice of buying it. That's like saying I don't want to sell this credit card because people are going people going dat or I don't want to sell this choice.

Speaker 1: 13:12

It's the same with like, yeah, yeah, well it's pretty much with selling anything that's true, because it would be kind of a fun atmosphere.

Speaker 2: 13:20

Yeah, for a little bit I mean, they cut people off technically. You could be the cutoff guy, that's it.

Speaker 1: 13:26

You're cutoff. Just see how many people I can cut off. Well, yeah because you can even cut them off after one if you really want to Like it's your. That would be so funny If you cut off after one. You're done. Yeah, you're done. Hey, you can't handle anymore.

Speaker 2: 13:47

I've seen you here before. I know I know what happens to you. I've never been here before, ever. Oh, what did you think about the wine question?

Speaker 1: 14:00

The wine. Oh, it's kind of hard because I feel like if you say there's better wine today, then it's like knocking Jesus.

Speaker 2: 14:10

Why.

Speaker 1: 14:11

I don't know. I mean I don't necessarily fully feel that way, but I feel like some people would get that idea Like no, jesus did the best of everything. So it's like if I say he wasn't the best winemaker Ethan. That's bad. I don't know because I wasn't there. Best winemaker Ethan that's bad.

Speaker 2: 14:25

I don't know, because I wasn't there Me neither.

Speaker 1: 14:29

But, I would say there's a big possibility of us having better wine today.

Speaker 2: 14:36

I feel like that too.

Speaker 1: 14:37

Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that. I think there was no way to make it super fast back then and he was just able to do that miracle and so he made wine, yeah, and that's that's what he did. And then today, now there's processes of making it and there may be a new process that just happens to be better than the wine they had back then. Yeah, who?

Speaker 2: 15:00

knows. Do you, do you agree with that? I thought you were going to ask this too. It was like wine being lower in alcohol content. A lot of people claim that with no science behind it.

Speaker 1: 15:14

It is not lower in alcohol content.

Speaker 2: 15:17

I thought it was a little bit Compared to what Like compared to now. I guess Like wines that are like, typically like you mean that, you mean back then?

Speaker 1: 15:27

I thought you meant like is wine lower than beer?

Speaker 2: 15:29

And I was like dude no, no lower alcohol content than now. Like people say that all the time, where it's like you know they're like it's 10. It was, it was only 6% back then, or something like that.

Speaker 1: 15:46

Like the wine well, people, you would still get buzzed off that yeah, I know I'm like that's kind of a stupid argument.

Speaker 2: 15:51

Anyway, yeah, because beer is like six percent, I think, yeah or yeah I still think it was like 13, which is like a normal wine what makes you think that I don't just like that?

Speaker 1: 16:04

you don't think much of the process has changed.

Speaker 2: 16:06

Right, yeah, yeah, I guess, yeah, the science of how they made it back then. I don't think it's really changed that much. It's still ferment If anything it could.

Speaker 1: 16:16

There's a good possibility. It could be more.

Speaker 2: 16:20

You think?

Speaker 1: 16:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:21

Dude, we should travel back in time, get some, get the time traveling machine Just for wine.

Speaker 1: 16:28

Yeah, time travel just for wine. No, because there would be no way to judge how much alcohol content is in it, so they would just make it and be like, yeah, that looks pretty good. And then you have somebody who's maybe newer to it, or somebody who's experienced and be like. I think we can wait a little longer.

Speaker 2: 16:48

We should wait two more years.

Speaker 1: 16:50

Yeah, exactly. And then all of a sudden it's just like whoa.

Speaker 2: 16:54

Well, didn't they do that to like purify the water? Is that why they made wine originally?

Speaker 1: 17:02

I thought that's why. But wouldn't you not get hydrated from it?

Speaker 2: 17:06

I think you do somewhat, because they have to add water to it.

Speaker 1: 17:11

I don't know. Oh, so they would have the wine and then put water into the wine. The wine would like kill whatever bacteria could possibly be in the water.

Speaker 2: 17:19

Yeah, wait, do you know the process of wine? I don't fully know the process of wine 90% water and they, they just like, they have like a how. What are those called great? 10? Can make you dizzy if you have too much they have like, uh, like wine holders, like wine skins.

Speaker 1: 17:39

They say this in the like the gospel somewhere yeah, I didn't know that's what wine skins did, though yeah that's what they do.

Speaker 2: 17:45

You don't pour old, it's really water. You don't pull pour old water like old wine, and you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1: 17:54

you don't, you don't pour water into old wineskins. Yeah, yeah, you pour it in the new, and then it would purify it yeah, yeah, yeah oh, I guess it's true what they say. You do learn something new every day. That kind of rhymes Like today yeah, oh, like I just learned that I always just thought wine skins was something that they hold the wine in.

Speaker 2: 18:16

No, I think it's actually what they use to ferment it, but it was kind of like a filter in a way Like they pour the water in. Yeah, I've made wine before you. You have to like, put stuff in it. You've made wine, yeah, except they got like um flies in it. Then it wasn't good so we waited like three years for really crappy wine. It's because, like the what are those? The little gnats, the um gnats fruit flies fruit flies, there we go.

Speaker 2: 18:46

Yeah, fruit fly. Why did I forget that word, I don't know. But uh, fruit flies were everywhere and they got in the the grapes themselves.

Speaker 1: 18:56

I need a drink ew, they got into the what go ahead. I know I just stopped, well, because I heard oh, I'm sorry, they got into the grapes. How did you? Isn't there a way that you can protect whatever you're making from outside sources, such as fruit flies?

Speaker 2: 19:21

yeah, you could probably bring them inside or something, because we we did it in the garage, in our old house, in our garage, so I don't know if there's an actual, maybe like a zapper, that'd be cool yeah, but I guess my question is where is?

Speaker 1: 19:41

where are the grapes that you're fermenting? Are they just in a little bowl or something that's?

Speaker 2: 19:47

exposed. I think we put it in a really clean five-gallon bucket and then you have to smash them, so it's not just grapes, right, you smash them, so then they're all exposed and then that's probably when the flies are like we're going to town getting their food.

Speaker 1: 20:04

Oh right, yeah, because technically the grapes at that point are completely dead, so they're exposed.

Speaker 2: 20:09

Now they're eating all the. Yeah, they're eating all of them, or trying to. And then they're just dying because we're trying to do stuff with them.

Speaker 1: 20:17

It's kind of weird that wine and other alcohol is just rotten fruit.

Speaker 2: 20:23

Yeah Well, think about yogurt. It's just rotten milk that's true.

Speaker 1: 20:27

One time I left yogurt out all night. Still ate it the next day because it's basically yogurt.

Speaker 2: 20:33

Yeah, I mean it's yogurt, it's I think they wait a little bit longer and they put stuff in it, but yeah no, I left like I bought a thing of yogurt.

Speaker 1: 20:41

Oh, a thing of yogurt, oh, I thought.

Speaker 2: 20:42

I bought a thing of yogurt. Oh, a thing of yogurt. Oh, I thought you said a thing of milk.

Speaker 1: 20:46

Sorry, just need to listen, yeah yeah, they definitely wait longer, though, than a day, but I'm saying I left yogurt out all night and I still ate it. It was fine Because it's basically what it is, is left out milk. Yeah, anyway, you were saying.

Speaker 2: 21:01

I've made a beer too before how was that?

Speaker 1: 21:06

Was that barley?

Speaker 2: 21:11

It's pretty much the same process as wine. Well, no, it's like you put like certain ingredients in water, in really clean water, though I don't remember what the ingredients are. It's not like coming to mind. I did it like a long time ago. Sorry, I'm not close enough to the mic.

Speaker 1: 21:35

There you go. Oh yeah, do you want to lean back? I can turn it up if you want. Oh yeah, sure.

Speaker 2: 21:42

Just a little bit.

Speaker 1: 21:42

Yeah, so that it picks you up a little bit more.

Speaker 2: 21:45

They have, like sure, just a little bit, yeah, so it picks you up a little bit more. They have a fermenting process, though Beer takes like nine months to make, nine months sitting.

Speaker 1: 21:54

That seems like a long time All beer does.

Speaker 2: 21:57

So every beer that you have takes nine months.

Speaker 1: 22:00

I feel like all alcohol takes a long time to make.

Speaker 2: 22:04

Yeah, bourbon takes even longer. I think Like two years.

Speaker 1: 22:08

Well, bourbon is a little different than whiskey, because it has to come from a charred barrel, that's true, and it comes from Kentucky. Yeah, only from Kentucky.

Speaker 2: 22:16

It's true, no, no.

Speaker 1: 22:17

No bourbon. You can only get bourbon from Kentucky.

Speaker 2: 22:20

Whiskey is everywhere else, oh yeah, you might be right there. Yeah, whiskey is everywhere else.

Speaker 1: 22:28

Oh yeah, yeah, there's like, there's like weird rules, well, unless you're in another country because other countries do it, then it's not called bourbon. I don't make the ones the us makes the rules part of the rules of bourbon is it has to come from kentucky it is, it's like a rule.

Speaker 2: 22:43

yeah, yeah, I didn't know that.

Speaker 1: 22:45

It's just like how, if you buy whiskey from Ireland, it's not. It's spelled W H, I, s, k Y. There's not there's not an E Y at the end. Same with Japan. It's spelled that way and like whiskey from Scotland is not called whiskey, it's Scotch.

Speaker 2: 23:01

Hmm.

Speaker 1: 23:01

Yeah, it's like all these weird.

Speaker 2: 23:02

it's like one of those are they all the names for the same exact thing?

Speaker 1: 23:06

pretty much yeah, yeah, it's, it's weird. I think like people are very peculiar, if I could say that word. Right? No, I think you said it right yeah on how it's made and where it's made, that they want it to be like their thing, because I feel like that's one of those. Whiskey is just one of those things that people are very passionate about. Yeah, when it comes to alcohol, I should say yeah, they really like their drinks.

Speaker 2: 23:35

I thought you could get it from Tennessee for some reason too, Not just Kentucky.

Speaker 1: 23:42

Nope, if you look on Jack Daniels, it's Tennessee whiskey.

Speaker 2: 23:51

Hmm, not your stuff. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I don't know enough about this. I know the cigar guys that on thursday night would know a lot about this speaking of yeah, I was gonna say speaking ofices.

Speaker 1: 24:03

what's the take on cigars? Seems to be like a new Christian masculine movement as cigars, for some reason, no only in our circle, yeah, only in our circle. No, I'm serious On YouTube and everything it's like got to itch my leg.

Speaker 2: 24:22

It's like, I think it's because you don't inhale it like a cigarette.

Speaker 1: 24:26

Yeah, and it's more of like a relaxation thing.

Speaker 2: 24:29

Yeah, and it's just a relaxation thing and I don't think it really changes your mind like weed would. So it's like that middle ground of like okay.

Speaker 1: 24:40

Yeah, it's a little bit. It's just relaxing. It's not like you're having. Most people aren't having 20 a day.

Speaker 2: 24:47

You aren't. I'm just kidding, I am no.

Speaker 1: 24:52

Dang, you must be rich. No, I'm not having 20 a day.

Speaker 2: 24:56

Dude 20 is that's nuts.

Speaker 1: 24:58

Well, I'm just saying, like cigarettes, you're having one after another. It seems like once, one every hour, or one every two hours. You're going out for a smoke. Yeah, what are you a?

Speaker 2: 25:06

Snoop Dogg of cigars.

Speaker 1: 25:09

Yeah, 20 was a bit of an exaggeration, but you know what I'm saying Five would be a lot in a day. Yes, five would be a lot in a day, yeah, but anyway, yeah, I think it's just one of those things that, if you're using it in moderation, yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:28

What do you think about tobacco in general?

Speaker 1: 25:30

You think it's like I don't know I don't think it's necessarily bad. I think they do a lot that makes it bad for you.

Speaker 2: 25:41

Yeah, or like the consequences of doing that for a long time. Is it necessarily good for your body? That's a good question. I would say Should I put it in question form? That's just a statement.

Speaker 1: 25:57

Well, it could be a good question. I think that. Well, I'm sorry. What did you say? You were asking a question no no, go ahead. It is a good question, obviously, if you're doing something that's making your health worse and worse over time. Yeah, it could give you cancer. Yeah, then it would be considered bad, there's no question about it. But are cigars really that way? Because I don't think you're getting progressively worse if you're not doing it every day.

Speaker 2: 26:27

Yeah, I don't think. So. I mean, you could probably still get. I don't know, I don't know if you could get mouth cancer from it. Maybe if you were accidentally inhaling Well, you do a little bit, inhale a little bit so maybe you could still get lung cancer from it over a long long period. Little bit, so maybe you could still get lung cancer from it over a long long period. But yeah, if you're having like one a week, I don't, I don't imagine it would do that.

Speaker 2: 26:49

Yeah, because it's not this constant hitting of yeah, dude, let's talk about vapes, though that stuff, because I used to vape like a lot well, wait, I will get to the vapes.

Speaker 1: 27:01

I just want to say yeah yeah. Anything else. Well, with like cigars and stuff, people can say that's bad or that it causes bad, but you can say that about almost anything Like what you eat Coffee. Is coffee bad for you, though I hear it's actually good for you.

Speaker 2: 27:18

Well, I mean, it can be excessive, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 27:21

I mean technically, it can raise your heart rate, it can still be like a vice for you.

Speaker 2: 27:25

I guess that's true. It is for me. I like coffee so much Cause I can.

Speaker 1: 27:29

I can get a headache sometimes in the morning, and then if I drink coffee it just goes away, which is also known as addiction.

Speaker 1: 27:36

Yeah, but we don't think that it's bad because coffee doesn't change your mind or anything, but it's still an addiction yeah like just because it doesn't change the way your mind thinks, or yeah, they're make you sick or anything, doesn't mean that it can't be an addiction. But I'd also say like fast food could be put in that category, because that's progressively killing you as well, slowly, over time yo, I mean heart disease, diabetes.

Speaker 2: 28:05

It's almost like a, isn't it kind of like a? I don't know, it's hard to say it's a sin, because, like, gluttony is a sin, but it's like, at what point? Right, you know.

Speaker 1: 28:15

What I mean is technically like what overeating yeah, eating when you don't necessarily need to but if you're hungry and you have fast food, you're not really. Yeah, it's not really gluttonous, because you're still eating when you need to, but if you're hungry and you have fast food, it's not really gluttonous, because you're still eating when you need to.

Speaker 2: 28:32

It's just not a good choice, yeah and it just has a lot of fat in it. Yeah, like trans fat. I think some people overeat it, though you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 28:41

Well, for sure, they're not eating because they're hungry.

Speaker 2: 28:43

They're eating because they love't they're hungry. They're eating because they love it yeah. They love it or they're addicted to having that much food.

Speaker 1: 28:53

Yeah it seems like people who eat fast food. Usually eat a lot of it.

Speaker 2: 28:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:58

It's not like something that Not me, though. I don't remember the last time I went to go have fast food, I had McDonald's. Today you should have went to Wendy's to get the Krabby Patty meal they have a. Krabby Patty meal. Yeah, it comes with a Krabby Patty, I think, kelp fries and then a pineapple frosty to promote SpongeBob.

Speaker 2: 29:24

Oh yeah, that's awesome. What do you mean? Why promote is there?

Speaker 1: 29:29

a movie coming out. Maybe it's not to promote spongebob, maybe it's just to promote wendy. It's a wendy's promotion, like how cool is that you can buy a crabby patty that's what it's called oh, okay, you know, I mean like a thick slice of beef and it's whatever comes on. The crabby patty like that one episode where they're putting all the toppings on and then it's like yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:48

So Wendy's is going out? Is what you're saying.

Speaker 1: 29:53

Possibility. They're trying anything, yeah. I mean yeah, krabby Patty, because I feel like SpongeBob is kind of outdated at this point. Yeah, I mean, I know they're still making episodes, but it's not they are. I think it this point, yeah, I mean I know they're still making episodes, but it's not they are.

Speaker 2: 30:05

I think it's just not funny you know what we should do after this? What watch spongebob where here? Oh yeah, I forgot. Anyways, I don't know on my phone I'm just I'm kind of just joking you could do a hot spot.

Speaker 1: 30:21

We could watch on the laptop oh boom, sponge bob. Anyway, fast food could be put in the same category. You could say that about almost anything, though yeah like anything can be used in excess. I'm pretty sure if you eat too many vitamins you'll get sick. Who knows?

Speaker 2: 30:44

Or get high.

Speaker 1: 30:47

Yeah, you never know. Anyway, you were talking about vapes. What about vaping? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:52

So I used to vape like all the time and when I came off of it, of vaping, it just feels like you're underwater the whole time.

Speaker 1: 31:04

When you're coming off of it.

Speaker 2: 31:06

Yeah, like I didn't realize that I felt like underwater the whole time, and then like my lungs got so much better when I stopped vaping. Stop vaping, kids.

Speaker 1: 31:15

Yeah, I remember vaping too. I think it's almost worse than cigarettes. I don't know how much healthier it is either, but as far as like, especially because the amount that you do it, because you can just have it on your lap and constantly yeah, do it you could do it in the house if you wanted to.

Speaker 2: 31:33

Most people do yeah, and even I know, I know I smoked out my room a couple of times yeah, it used to be like delivering pizzas and I would just have it.

Speaker 1: 31:44

Yeah, and your windshield gets all foggy. It's kind of weird.

Speaker 2: 31:48

Yeah, hazy, you had to clean it. Yeah, every once in a while, yeah, it was weird, but I don't think that's necessarily a healthy alternative.

Speaker 1: 31:56

And it's still an addiction yeah, an expensive one too.

Speaker 2: 32:01

I don't think, and I think they don't have any like long-term studies on vaping because it hasn't been out long enough. It's like so what is that going to do in like 25 years?

Speaker 1: 32:12

if you're like the kids now, you know they still don't have that enough research on it. I feel like they don't yeah because, you would have to like research, somebody who's been doing it for 20, 50 years, I think cauliflower lung is a thing.

Speaker 2: 32:28

Popcorn oh, is it popcorn? Yeah, is that just like the glands get full of water and they just expand a little bit?

Speaker 1: 32:36

Is that what happens? Yeah, something like that. It's just like ugh, it just does not sound good yeah. Because I remember when I was vaping it was hard to breathe.

Speaker 2: 32:44

Yeah, Because I remember when I was vaping, it was hard to breathe, yeah. And then when you get off it, you're like, wow, I can actually breathe. Now I don't feel like I'm in a like. It feels like when you're in a pool and you like swallow a little bit of water and you're like man, I'm trying to cough this up, you know.

Speaker 1: 32:57

Yeah, except all the time. I would compare it to like you've been swimming for a few hours and you just have, like that feeling of being in the water and being underwater yeah, that's why I would have described it.

Speaker 2: 33:15

It's not good kids yeah, don't drown, you're on vape yeah for real. I used to have a box to the boxes, like people now just have the jewels and stuff and they buy them disposable ones.

Speaker 1: 33:28

Yeah, I used to have like the transformer Huge box, the big robot with the button, has like a big tank and you put coils in it.

Speaker 2: 33:35

Yeah, you have coils and then you put liquid in the top. Yep, yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:41

And then you would know it's going bad, because the liquid would be all brown.

Speaker 2: 33:45

Oh yeah, yeah, I used to push my coils really far.

Speaker 1: 33:51

Yeah, that's probably when vaping was really bad for you because if the coil was like burnt and stuff like that's all going in you.

Speaker 2: 33:57

Yeah, and then I switched. At some point I was like I can't do this anymore. I have to have a new coil. So as soon as, like, I hit that first one, like it might not even be like all the way gone, but as soon as I got a little bit of burn, I was like I'm switching it out, that's it, I'm not doing this anymore. Yeah because, it just tastes so bad yeah, it would taste bad.

Speaker 1: 34:21

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that goes under the bad category, I think.

Speaker 2: 34:27

That all of this is just bad. Don't do it.

Speaker 1: 34:31

Well, I don't necessarily think cigars or drinking in moderation is terrible.

Speaker 2: 34:35

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:35

I think that those are. Both can be used as relaxation or like a social thing, as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

Speaker 2: 34:44

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:47

Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 34:49

sense it does make sense all right, you want to.

Speaker 1: 34:54

You want to switch topics in yeah, let's, uh, let's talk about you on the trail. Let's just switch to a completely different topic. Now. Let's say you were on, you just got back from continental divide and how many miles was it?

Speaker 2: 35:10

it was 3 000 miles and you walked that whole. Thing yeah, and technically more than that, because I did a lot of um like extra mountains and stuff. Sorry, my ear itch, I did, I did, I did extra like 14ers in colorado, um for people who don't know what is a 14er, oh yeah yeah, it's over 14 000 feet uh was it hard to breathe up there. So and were you going to the peaks?

Speaker 1: 35:47

Yeah, yeah the peaks are.

Speaker 2: 35:49

So there's actually more 14ers than you'd think. But they have to like. They have to make like a certain. There can't be like other mountains that are kind of close to it. Like it has to be like a standalone to be a called a 14 or, if that makes sense, like there can't be other mountains that are too close to it. Why is?

Speaker 1: 36:11

that? Is there a reason?

Speaker 2: 36:15

Because I don't really know Otherwise. I think there's just too many. Or it's just called a ridge instead of like a you know an actual mountain, yeah, gotcha. So then I think there's just too many. Or it's just called a ridge instead of like a you know an actual mountain, yeah, gotcha. So then I think that's why. But anyways, I climbed a bunch of those. How?

Speaker 1: 36:34

many, nine exactly. Wasn't that hard to do.

Speaker 2: 36:40

Oh yeah. Yeah, it was hard, but you asked it, was it hard to breathe? Yeah yeah, um. So when we're hiking I'm super in shape and most of the time my elevation, like it, started at 4 000 and by the time we hit colorado I had already went over mount taylor, which was 11 000 feet, so like I was already used to higher elevation yeah I would say it would be a lot harder if you were like to go from here to there.

Speaker 1: 37:09

So you were at 11,000 feet for a while.

Speaker 2: 37:12

Right, right. Yeah, I would sleep at 8,000 or 9,000 feet, like all the time.

Speaker 1: 37:17

Oh, okay.

Speaker 2: 37:18

So I was already used to elevation. There was one day so I did three 14ers in a day, which is kind of crazy. Um, dang it. Why am I drawing a blank on what ones they are? I'm drawing a blank on them and why, oh, which? Which mountains it is? Um, can I look it up?

Speaker 1: 37:46

Yeah, I guess We'll just sit and relax, just take a break.

Speaker 2: 37:53

I have it on Gaia. I guess it's one of the apps that I used if I went off trail. So I use Far Out mostly for it wants me to sign in mostly, for I use far out mostly for, um, the regular trail, like the continental divide trail, yeah uh, which is an app pretty much all of the hikers use them, use it uh. But going off trail, um, typically people use, like gaia or all trails, one of those two apps I use all trails you use all trail, do you have?

Speaker 1: 38:38

to pay for that there's what there is like the better version that you can pay for, but I just like to use it. Start the trail just to see how long I've walked and my elevation gain.

Speaker 2: 38:49

And that's free. Okay, yeah, yeah, that would suck if you had to pay for it. Then Like anymore.

Speaker 1: 39:02

Well, everything sucks when you have to pay for it like anymore. Well, everything sucks, we have to pay for it.

Speaker 2: 39:08

Let me look up a list of 14 years. I actually forgot to, so I kind of wanted to do this anyways. Forgot to like two of the ones that I climbed. Oh yeah, I did that one. I don't know, unless you just want to keep on going.

Speaker 1: 39:31

Yeah, if you can't find it then we can't Like directly.

Speaker 2: 39:38

Why am I drawing a blank on it? It's not so. I did Elbert, I did Massive, I did La Plata. It's not so. I did elbert, I did massive, I did la plata, I did gray's peak.

Speaker 1: 39:53

Gray's peak is the only one actually on the trail so the other ones, you went off trail to do them, yeah so, like 13 of the four, or sorry, eight of the nine, I went off trail that I did. And how much longer? How many more days did that add to your expedition?

Speaker 2: 40:17

Oh, I don't know. Probably at least like two or three compared to anybody else.

Speaker 1: 40:22

So you would be going up multiple mountains in a day.

Speaker 2: 40:26

Yeah, yep.

Speaker 1: 40:28

That's kind of crazy Because it took us when we went to Mount Shakurwa in New Hampshire. It took us about three hours to get to the peak.

Speaker 2: 40:36

Right.

Speaker 1: 40:38

Or maybe not three hours. I think it was like an hour and a half or two hours to get up there, but that's a very short mountain compared to what you're on right, hold on, I know I know which one it's by so I can look it up that way.

Speaker 2: 40:56

So I did. Um, the reason why I need to look this one up is because it's kind of where the story begins. Um, oh, it's huron. Why did I forget it was huron?

Speaker 1: 41:06

dude, how could you forget that we have that lake? Huh, we have the lake named that I know anyways, I.

Speaker 2: 41:14

So I went up mount huron and on the back side of huron there isn't a trail, there's zero trail not even like an unofficial one.

Speaker 1: 41:24

No, there's nothing there's nothing.

Speaker 2: 41:26

So you usually go up here on and then just go right back down it. Yeah, I was like I want to go up it and find a way down the other side, just bushwhacking whatever to get to over to missouri and I missouri the mountain, yeah the, which is the second 14er that I did that day yeah so I get to the top and I look at this edge and it's just like a nice edge, like all all along.

Speaker 2: 41:54

I'm like I think over there I might be able to get down, like I just point at it from the top. So I'm like, yeah, I'll just head that way and hopefully I can find it, because you can kind of stay on the top like float on the top. Yeah, so I was just head that way and hopefully I can find it, cause you can kind of stay on the top like float on the top.

Speaker 2: 42:05

Yeah, so I was just floating on the top and then pretty much it was just uh, rock climbing down down here on.

Speaker 1: 42:15

excuse me, the whole time rock climbing down.

Speaker 2: 42:20

Yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty crazy. It's probably the craziest mountain I've ever gone down. Like it wasn't straight, like like hard, hard, but it's like, yeah, if I slip or fall off, then it's definitely not gonna end well.

Speaker 2: 42:38

so I was just like climbing down it and then I was trying to find the best path, like it would. It would flatten out a little bit and then it would go down steep again. I'm sure if anybody goes to Huron they'll be like you climbed on that side of it and I'll be like, yeah, so I got all the way down to the bottom, which was like 9,000 feet. So I have to go back up to Missouri, which this is the backside of Missouri, and most people don't take this trail either.

Speaker 1: 43:07

But does Missouri have a trail?

Speaker 2: 43:09

Yeah, there was a trail, it wasn't very well like traveled. So I'm at 9,000 feet. I have to go back up to over 14 because they're over 14.

Speaker 1: 43:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:22

So I go up to Missouri and my plan was actually to do, uh, belford and oxford, so I was trying to hit four in one day. Um, and so I come back around missouri to go over to belford. I have to go back down again a third time and I think I went only down to like 10 or maybe 11,000 feet and then I start climbing. And the reason why I'm saying the story is because I actually got elevation sickness on the third one. And it was pretty crazy because I don't know, they kind of tell you what elevation sickness feels like, but like, not until you experience it. You're like, oh, this is you know, this is what it is, but like not until you experience it. You're like, oh, this is you know, this is what it is, yeah, and I would like it got to a some point.

Speaker 2: 44:08

It was like 13,000 feet or something like that, and I just felt really tired, out of breath and I would stop. I stopped, took a break and then, like, I did like 50 feet more and I was tired, dead, tired again, and then I kept on going. It was like 25 feet and I was tired, dead, tired again, and then I kept on going. It was like 25 feet and I would take a break, like I'm saying, like you know, a minute, two minutes. Did you think that you were dying? I don't know. No, it was just like. This is frustrating because I'm like my body, I know my body can do more, yeah, but it's just like I have to stop because I'm just like so, like out of breath yeah and it got to the point where I was doing like 10 or 10 to 5 feet up and just stopping again.

Speaker 1: 44:50

But I made it up um, up Belford, um was Belford the one that you got the motion sickness yeah, that's. That's the one that I'm talking about like on the way up I was getting how long did it take you to get up with your condition?

Speaker 2: 45:06

Yeah, so I was planning on getting up there at like five and I think it took like an extra hour or so, maybe like a half hour to an hour of extra time, and how long was each rest?

Speaker 2: 45:18

Only like a minute to like five minutes maybe. That's kind of a lot, yeah, adds up. Yeah. Like five minutes, maybe so kind of a lot, yeah, adds up, yeah. So then I got to the top and I knew I wasn't going to be able to go over to oxford, which is like it's only half a mile away, but you have to go down like 500 feet and then back up 500 feet, yeah, to make it like it's a separate mountain. That's that's also why they, like you know they could count it as one mountain if it's too high of elevation in between the ridges, right, um? So at that point I was like, yeah, I gotta go down. So then I went, went back down and it my lungs, uh, slowly improved, I would say. When I got down to like 12 000 feet I was fine. But I'm also going downhill, which is a lot easier.

Speaker 1: 46:09

But yeah, I think going downhill on mountains is harder, but well, I mean easy, easier like on your body on my body, I guess.

Speaker 2: 46:18

Yeah, in your legs you can go downhill a lot faster than uphill.

Speaker 1: 46:24

So and I'm assuming you're the only one doing these by yourself. Yeah, you're not coming. You're not coming across to anybody so like what's going on in your mind, aren't you? Is there any part of you that's a little scared that something could go wrong out there, especially with the sickness, and I would the rock climbing part. What if you had gotten stuck?

Speaker 2: 46:47

Yeah, it was pretty dangerous.

Speaker 1: 46:50

I don't really think about it In the moment.

Speaker 2: 46:52

I guess I just don't think about it. I just want to go experience it and I don't really think about that risk. It's in the back of my head, you know, alex Horn Harndale.

Speaker 1: 47:08

Yes, harndale, I don't know. Yeah yeah, the rock, the free climber, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:13

He has a quote that's like, yeah, some people just don't experience that fear of death and it's like it's kind of sad, he's like it, like it's, it's a thrill. But he also, I think he also has that fear mindset and I I wouldn't be surprised if I have this too, where it's just like you have to feel extreme fear to actually feel fear. You know, I mean like not every day, you know ever doing like normal things is just not scary, like you have to go out and get that thrill, like it's a thrill seeker. And a lot of people, a lot of climbers, don't feel really even fear when they're climbing either, like they're at a point where they're just at a bliss yeah, and it's just something that they love doing so they're not really thinking about oh, if I fail, they're only thinking I love doing this, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:07

So I think that's why I like climbing and hiking so much, because I don't like really think about that, it's just like I go and experience it.

Speaker 1: 48:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:14

And it's fun to me so.

Speaker 1: 48:20

So you're on the way down from was Missouri the one that you got sickness. No, no, it was after Missouri to Belford, belford and then on your way down from Belford to Oxford, you start feeling better.

Speaker 2: 48:33

No, I wasn't good. I couldn't go to Oxford at all Because you never made it. No, yeah, so I didn't do the four, I only did three that day, which is still a crazy achievement. If you told anybody yeah, I know a guy that did three 14ers in a day they would be like what. But yeah, so I came down Belford, just on the other side of it, and just camped. I think I was still at like 10,000 feet when I camped.

Speaker 2: 49:04

So in anything really over eight, you could get elevation sickness If you're sleeping. No, no, just in general anything over eight. Um, when I I did graze, which is the only one on the CDT that you go up, hold on, I got, okay, it passed. Um, uh, I went up graze and then, as I was coming down, it was pretty late and I came down and I camped like right at 12,000 feet. I was like who gets whoever camps at this high of height like 12,000 feet? Nobody. And I just did it't. It was fine, but yeah, but I was way used to used to it by then yeah, and that's.

Speaker 1: 49:53

You said. That's on the grays, as you call it yeah, it's called grays, peak and tory.

Speaker 2: 49:59

Grays and tories is right next to each other and grays is on the trail and Torrey's is like half mile off. So I put my pack down, went over and did Torrey's and then came back and got my pack and kept on going.

Speaker 1: 50:13

And you just remembered where your pack was. Was it like, or was there a trail?

Speaker 2: 50:17

Yeah, yeah, I was. It was just off the trail, it was at the top of graze Um peak of Gray's Peak. I actually did that a lot. So for Elbert and Massive I did the same thing. I just slack packed it. That's what they call it. You probably don't know that term, do you no? So slack packing is like some people do it, like from town to town, like you can give somebody your pack and they'll like so. Then you just take a day pack and you go from town to town if it's close enough, like typically it's a day hike. It's like a day hike, yeah. So like usually it's less than 25 miles. But I did it where I would put my pack down and then like take my water and my whatever, a candy bar, and then went up um elbert, which is the highest in Colorado and the second highest and the lowest, 48. What's the most high, whitney, which I did on the PCT.

Speaker 1: 51:14

Okay, so that one's out in Oregon, Washington, no California.

Speaker 2: 51:19

California, Yep. So I went and did Albert and then I came down grabbed my pack. Albert and Massive are separated by like seven miles, like the base of them are.

Speaker 1: 51:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:33

So I did like the seven miles, got to Massive and put my pack down and did that one too. So I did the two highest in Colorado, but they're the second and the third highest in the lower 48.

Speaker 1: 51:47

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:48

So in the same day, in the same day. Yeah, and you're still alive to talk about it.

Speaker 1: 51:53

So that's, pretty cool yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:55

Yeah, yeah. Well, when you add all that up, it's like 8,000 feet of elevation gain in a single day, like 8,000 feet of elevation gain in a single day, jeez, so your body is just adapting and changing so much, I just fired on all seven cylinders, dude.

Speaker 1: 52:13

Yeah, all seven cylinders, eighth? No, you only have seven. You only have seven. Now, sir, you need to gain more muscle to get the eighth, need to gain more muscle to get the eighth. And then what's after Gray's? Is there just still more mountains? Is there just shorter?

Speaker 2: 52:31

Right, yeah, like after you do that one, I think there's like one more 13 or right after it, but then that's. Then. It kind of goes pretty low after that.

Speaker 1: 52:43

Sorry. Oh, I thought you were I thought you were going to look something up on your phone. No, no.

Speaker 2: 52:50

I was just trying to get this relaxed, oh.

Speaker 1: 52:54

I did La.

Speaker 2: 52:55

Plata after I did. So I did those three, those one day, that one day, and then the next day I do La Plata, which is another 14er.

Speaker 1: 53:05

That one's pretty cool. What makes?

Speaker 2: 53:06

that one pretty cool. Uh, it's more standalone, like Huron is like there's a lot of mountains around it, where La Plata is like a little bit farther out and there's not as many mountains around it.

Speaker 1: 53:19

There's a lot of ridgeline, but not like I don't know, it's just one of those ones that you go up and you can like see it you can see pretty far on that one compared to Huron and the other two were any of them snow capped at the time.

Speaker 2: 53:37

Missouri wasn't, belford wasn't, but Huron and La Plata was, and then Elber. Elbert and massive both had snow on them too. So four out of the nine that I went on, yeah and what happens after these big mountains.

Speaker 1: 54:01

What's the trail like then?

Speaker 2: 54:03

or is colorado just all mountain yeah, colorado is mostly mountain. Um, I mean, then you, you, you have like the winds coming up like north, way north of that you have you. Uh see, why am I thinking, utah, right.

Speaker 1: 54:22

Is Utah number four? Why am I thinking Utah? Wasn't it New Mexico, colorado, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 54:28

New Mexico, colorado, wyoming.

Speaker 1: 54:31

Wyoming.

Speaker 2: 54:33

Yeah, and then Utah, and then.

Speaker 1: 54:39

Montana. Well wouldn't it yeah.

Speaker 2: 54:45

Utah is kind of next to Colorado, isn't it? Are you talking?

Speaker 1: 54:48

about idaho. Oh yeah, idaho. Why am I thinking utah? That kind of sounds similar in some ways, but it's because colorado, arizona I think colorado, arizona, yeah, utah and another one.

Speaker 2: 54:58

Oh, I went utah. I went to utah with my parents today, that's why I'm thinking of it when they came and visited.

Speaker 1: 55:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 55:06

That was cool. Went to Arizona too.

Speaker 1: 55:08

There's three people that I know that have gone to Utah so far.

Speaker 2: 55:13

Oh, maybe it's because Josh and freaking Cale were talking or Alec were talking about it.

Speaker 1: 55:18

Yeah, utah's been on the mind.

Speaker 2: 55:21

Yeah, maybe, maybe. Yeah, utah has been on the mind. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I don't know when were we.

Speaker 1: 55:30

We were talking about Colorado. But what compels you Other than the thrill-seeking part? Is there anything else that makes you want to go on these trails and just leave everything behind for a while?

Speaker 2: 55:45

Oh yeah, I feel like I said this last time, but that's okay. Um, what do you mean last time when we talked about the AT?

Speaker 1: 55:52

Oh, so like last year, yeah, yeah, people can hear it again.

Speaker 2: 55:57

Um, I think just being really away from society. One year away from your phone, like you don't have internet easily accessible. You're away from work Like you don't have work stress, you don't have car stress, you don't have house stress, you know.

Speaker 1: 56:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 56:15

And all of that, you don't have money stress. If you save up and do it right, you don't have money stress. Some people do still out there, right, you know, if you're going in debt because of trails.

Speaker 1: 56:29

Is there times when you're just out there and you have no idea what's going on in the world because you can't update your phone?

Speaker 2: 56:35

Sometimes, but a lot of the stuff we find out pretty quickly like Trump getting shot at. I knew like the day after yeah, that's pretty crazy.

Speaker 1: 56:45

I would have thought that would have been like you're just wandering about on the trail and then all of a sudden, months later, you're like hey, that's crazy, that happened.

Speaker 2: 56:53

Yeah, no, I mean we're in towns like three or four days and sometimes we even get there. Wasn't too bad of connect, like lack of connection, like usually I would have it on on airplane mode because it kills your phone yeah, because it's just constantly searching for satellite so like once and maybe once a day, I would check it and see if I have anything.

Speaker 2: 57:12

But other than that I wouldn't check it and I just don't care about like news that much yeah, like Well, I mean, the whole point of being out there is to kind of forget about it.

Speaker 1: 57:26

Yeah, forget about it Beyond nature. So it makes sense.

Speaker 2: 57:30

Yeah. Are you going to write a book? I've thought about it. I thought about writing about like all three, cause I think it's hard to write a book on like just one and then the other, then the other, and it's hard to be like, and today I went walking, like you know, you have to like do individual stories, like you know, that one that I just told about the three mountains, maybe more in depth than what I just said, but yeah, because when you're writing it's a lot a lot slower yeah slower and easier to go into detail.

Speaker 1: 58:05

Yeah, I love my red bull got red ball down.

Speaker 2: 58:09

Um, I think the one of the crazy craziest stories was on the cdt was the rain in colorado. They got really bad rainstorms. Is it early june?

Speaker 1: 58:22

yeah, I think early june is that the natural process, or was this a thing that was happening this year?

Speaker 2: 58:29

yeah, like this year they got it early, gotcha, they got it early june. They usually get it late june and so they had flooding there, but that's kind of beside the point. It was it was raining one day when I was walking well, I should back up. So I was walking through a bunch of mountains and it's like four, three, four, and usually it rains like at five, and usually it only rains for like maybe an hour, but this day was different.

Speaker 2: 58:58

So it starts raining like at four, like just just like light rain, yeah, and then it just starts calming down like around five and I'm like dang, it's really coming down and it's it's like 60, you know it's not like cold, but it's not warm for for July, right, and uh, or June, sorry, early June and uh, so I'm just walking and it's just coming down and for hours it was just coming down. Usually it just, like I said, just passes through. So I'm like man, I got to find some place and I like look on my phone. I'm like, okay, it says there's a cabin like right here, uh, and it was like 25 miles in is quite a bit in colorado, um because of the mountains.

Speaker 2: 59:47

Yeah, yeah yeah, doing 25. If you told people you did 25 through colorado, that's, that's kind of crazy. But I did that like every day, and usually by five o'clock, five or six o'clock, but I get. I get close to this cabin around seven and I just get in there and I'm just like drenched, I'm like cold and I think I was like borderline hyperthermic because I'm like starting to shake like like from being so cold and my rain jacket which I I think it's a really good rain jacket and it got soaked through. So it was. I had a a long sleeve but it was all wet, like all down my sleeve aren't rain jackets supposed to be completely waterproof?

Speaker 2: 1:00:29

they're supposed to be, but that one went through like you're supposed to put lacquer on them too, and I hadn't put lacquer on them in a while. And on mine, um, I had rain pants. This is why I always hike with rain pants too. It's because that saved my pants like a lot. I think, it only got like wet, like kind of down by, like my ankles, because that's where you're walking. But yeah, I just had to like take everything off and switch to my second pair of clothing so I have to.

Speaker 1: 1:01:02

Your backpack has some type of rain protection on them yeah, my, my rain, or sorry, my backpack.

Speaker 2: 1:01:11

It has it had a cedar summit like rain proof, like a really heavy bag inside of it. I most some people do the outside but like, yeah, but if it rains as hard as it did that day it would have gone through the outside bag too yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:01:27

Then all of your stuff is just done, like, how are you going to sleep in a wet sleeping bag? So instead I do the inside and just have a liner on the inside, and so, yeah, my all my stuff was dry. I had, I have like a sleeping pair of like clothes, so I just put those on and then I had my puffy on and I warmed up after a while. But that cabin really saved my butt because if I was going to try to set up a camp in that, like no way.

Speaker 1: 1:01:59

In the rainstorm.

Speaker 2: 1:02:01

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:02:02

It was really bad. Was there anyone else in the cabin?

Speaker 2: 1:02:04

No, except for a very greedy rat.

Speaker 1: 1:02:09

Ugh yeah, did you roast it?

Speaker 2: 1:02:12

No, I wanted to kill it, but it was running all over the place.

Speaker 1: 1:02:20

Did you stay there?

Speaker 2: 1:02:21

I had no way to kill it. Anyways, you could slap it back, yeah, yeah it's it's old, minor uh cabins. So there's a lot of abandoned cabins in colorado in general that still have good roofs on them. Some of them aren't aren't good anymore, but this one, this in particular one, had a metal roof on it, so so it was really good.

Speaker 1: 1:02:45

You stayed there with a rat. Yeah, I'd be freaked out to sleep there.

Speaker 2: 1:02:52

That happens all the time On the AT. There's more mice on the AT than anything.

Speaker 1: 1:02:59

But you said he was greedy. What made him greedy?

Speaker 2: 1:03:01

He was really fat. That's why I said he was greedy. What made him greedy? He was really fat. That's why I said he was great. But you, you have to hang your. You just hang your pack up like on a hook and usually they can't. Usually rats can't get to it. Or I think this one had like a metal wire that hangs down and they can't get to it because I think they can't like go on the wire itself like they can't, and they don't want to jump onto your pack right, because they're not, they don't fly that well.

Speaker 1: 1:03:27

I mean, if they miss they could die right right so but I would just not like sleeping on the ground with it wandering about. I feel like that freaked me out a little bit yeah, I had my flashlight on him at one time.

Speaker 2: 1:03:41

He was only like two feet away. I'm like I. I just want to strangle you.

Speaker 1: 1:03:47

I bet you could have easily killed it if you wanted to Smack your flashlight on it, although, that's kind of violent.

Speaker 2: 1:03:53

I didn't have a big flashlight.

Speaker 1: 1:03:55

Oh.

Speaker 2: 1:03:56

And like a small lantern one.

Speaker 1: 1:03:58

You're telling me you probably don't bring a knife too, because it's too heavy.

Speaker 2: 1:04:02

No, I had a knife, but it's going to run away once you make a move. That's true. Maybe my pole, maybe I could have gotten him with my pole, but my hiking poles.

Speaker 1: 1:04:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:04:14

But I think they were down. So I was in a loft area and then all of my other stuff was down low like on the ground.

Speaker 1: 1:04:23

And he was just up on the ground, so, and he was just up there with you.

Speaker 2: 1:04:26

Yeah, we were chilling yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:04:31

Okay, so there's the rainstorm rainstorm in 99,.

Speaker 2: 1:04:36

The rainstorm in 99.

Speaker 1: 1:04:38

And then like so the next day is it not raining, or is it still raining bad.

Speaker 2: 1:04:44

The next morning it was still raining. I think it cleared up about halfway through the day, which usually it does. It's weird.

Speaker 1: 1:04:52

And how do you dry your clothes?

Speaker 2: 1:04:55

You don't. You just leave them on and I put my rain gear back on. You kind of just start cold. I would imagine the chafing is real back on you kind of just start cold. I would imagine the chafing is real. I would say I always get dry chafing, not from rain, not from like water. Really I always get it in like I got it in um the california desert.

Speaker 1: 1:05:17

And then I also got it in new mexico when I was there I wonder if it's because the air is so dry and your skin gets really dry yeah, it's usually usually my butt. It's very uncomfortable I can imagine that does not sound fun for anybody yeah, I don't know why is my phone going on, but you can flip it over yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna do that wow, that was cool.

Speaker 1: 1:05:44

I made a cool sound, wow, and so did you hike in the rain the next day in your wet rain gear and yeah, and then it dried out midday or whatever, because the sun comes out, the sun comes out. Yeah, that's one funny because the colorado is known as the sunshine state.

Speaker 2: 1:06:02

Yeah, I mean, everything dries out though, you know, because it's dry in Colorado.

Speaker 1: 1:06:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:06:12

So it all dries out? Wow, it dries out really quickly. They're probably slamming the door because we're talking so loud. You think we're talking loud, I don't know. I could see your neighbors hearing us, do you think so?

Speaker 1: 1:06:25

No, I feel like we sound louder because we have headphones on. Oh, maybe, yeah, like if you take them off, doesn't it sound like we're normally talking.

Speaker 2: 1:06:33

Oh, yeah, it doesn't sound loud to me.

Speaker 1: 1:06:36

I thought I took them off, though, when we were all doing the last one and, uh, I thought we were talking really loud I feel like that day we were, because there was like so, when there's three of us, there's more more energy, more energy yeah and so I think it's just a little more obnoxious because I definitely, when I was recording through that one, I was like, man, I'm being pretty obnoxious in this one, yeah, more than I normally am, but it was fun because there was three of us. Yeah, jokes were being told and laughed at and laughed at. Yeah, and for many ages I'll be laughed at I'll look back at this time, but anyways so back to the book the book the book that you need to write.

Speaker 1: 1:07:26

Yeah, Like I said I would write one like John Eldridge, be Ethan Eldridge or call or call him, change your last name, or call him John Scudder.

Speaker 2: 1:07:38

Excuse me, sorry yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:07:42

Yeah, cause I think it's. I mean, you don't need to make it the whole premise of the book, but I think it's good for men to hear about adventures like that yeah, because I think in today's society there's not enough men going out and doing these types of adventures. Not that you need to go on a hike for six months, but it's really cool to hear stories like that and they're inspiring for men to hear, so I think that would be an important book.

Speaker 2: 1:08:12

Yeah, and I think it was a lot of. It was walking with God, cause I read my Bible like every night, not to not to boast or anything.

Speaker 1: 1:08:22

It sounds like you're like no, I, I, I read my Bible like every night, not to boast or anything. Dude, it sounds like you're like hyper-spiritual right now.

Speaker 2: 1:08:26

No, I had a plan to read the whole New Testament while I was out there.

Speaker 1: 1:08:32

I saw it on Facebook. You would be like Romans 1. Yeah, 1 through 4 or whatever.

Speaker 2: 1:08:39

Yeah, usually I'd read two or three in a night Chapters. Yeah, yeah, whoa. Usually I'd read two, two or three in a night chapters. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:08:46

Yeah, Whoa Well that's pushing it way too spiritual yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:08:53

Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 2: 1:08:54

I don't know Um that's the only thing I had to read, though. So like I had my Bible downloaded on my phone, um, read though. So like I had my bible downloaded on my phone, um, I'm not saying that's the only the reason why I read it, but yeah, but uh, when there's nothing to do, like at night, it's really nice just calming down, reading your bible and then falling asleep right after that and it's like a real, I don't know, walking with god thing. It's like I can read the whole new testament in five months, five, six months. That's another thing I was going to kind of bring up is like do you feel like many people have read the whole new testament in general, like most people? No, that's crazy to me like most christians, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:09:41

I figured that's what you meant.

Speaker 2: 1:09:45

Atheist.

Speaker 1: 1:09:46

Atheist. Yeah, for some reason, atheists are not reading the New Testament. They're actually doing better. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised sometimes. I think that if the majority of Christians were reading the New Testament, we probably wouldn't have megachurches.

Speaker 2: 1:10:06

You think, wow, yeah, because when you read it in its entirety, it's like oh, sometimes some of the things that are said in there are like, yeah, this doesn't really follow what you guys are saying.

Speaker 1: 1:10:16

Exactly. They take verses out of context a lot of times and make what they want the verse to say. They make it say yeah because they I don't know if they like just believe that or if some of them, I'm sure, know people aren't going to actually look it up. Yeah, I know the majority of people aren't going to actually look up what this verse means because people give. It seems like in today's day and age people give such authority to people, like if a pastor says it, it's like oh, it must be true.

Speaker 2: 1:10:52

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:10:53

A good example is when Job says I think it's the first chapter in Job. He says first chapter in Job. He says the God that gives and the God that takes away. Some people think that God does give and God does take away. But then some people don't believe that. And they only believe it because a pastor said, well, god doesn't actually take away. Job is just saying that. But it's not actually true. Now yeah, and they just believe it because the pastor says it. Now, wow, yeah, and they just believe it because their pastor says it. When job says the god that gives and the god that takes, the next verse it says and with all, this, job would not sin with his lips. So I was like, is he telling the truth then?

Speaker 1: 1:11:37

I think that's a true statement he gives and takes away yeah, I do too, but some, for some reason, when you fall on the side that god takes away, you're like a believer in the evil god and it's like.

Speaker 2: 1:11:51

But sometimes god takes away for good reason, yeah, yeah yeah, I think the argument of I mean we've kind of gone over this before, but you know the paul argument of uh, you know he, he had a something going on. You know we don't know what it is right, it's a metaphoric, or it could be, or it could be real.

Speaker 2: 1:12:14

Like you're right, we don't know yeah, we don't, we don't know what it was. But he said you know. And then god said to him like I am efficient enough, like like I am enough for you or I meant yeah, I am very efficient, I build worlds no, yeah, yeah, but I know you're talking about.

Speaker 1: 1:12:35

It's like he prays to him three times. Then he says my grace should be sufficient yeah, sufficient, that's the word I'm looking for, even though.

Speaker 2: 1:12:47

People are going to be like you guys are idiots.

Speaker 1: 1:12:49

Well, I'm sure they already think that but they'll continue. They come back.

Speaker 2: 1:12:54

But anyways, I feel like there's a reason why that we don't know what that was.

Speaker 1: 1:13:05

So then we can insert our own thing of like you know's true I'm struggling with this.

Speaker 2: 1:13:07

You know what I mean. Yeah, I'm struggling with this is like I am enough.

Speaker 1: 1:13:10

Yeah, come back to me, because if it, was like blatantly a physical problem, then we would only think about that during our physical right but we don't know.

Speaker 2: 1:13:20

We don't know if it's like a spiritual or a mental or physical. Yeah, and most people put it in that category. They think it was like because he got blind in that time and so he had eye problems, and most people put them in that and it's like we don't know that for a hundred percent. Sure.

Speaker 1: 1:13:36

Yeah, because that happens in Acts, right and then. Or the blinding happens in Acts and then that statement is in 2 Corinthians. Yeah, I actually know it. 2 Corinthians 12, 9. Dude, there's my boast Dude.

Speaker 2: 1:13:51

Wow, I cannot do that. I like I've like read like the whole Bible, the whole New Testament, probably like a couple of times, like three or four times, and I still, I still can't feel like exactly where it is. It's like, oh yeah, this one verse, like I don't remember where it is, but I know it's in there.

Speaker 1: 1:14:09

Lately I've been thinking I don't know if it really matters. Yeah, if you have like the exact verse memorized. Yeah, like as long as you know, that's what it says. And then if, if they look it up and you're right, it's like what and why does it matter?

Speaker 2: 1:14:22

Yeah?

Speaker 1: 1:14:22

The only reason why I have that specific one memorized is because you can use it in arguments, in debates. Oh Well, when it comes to like does God heal every time and all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:14:36

Yeah, good job, which is that would give you a high five, but I'm not next to you. Yeah, air fives are cool, though, which give you a high five, but I'm not next to you.

Speaker 1: 1:14:45

Yeah, air fives are cool, though, which would be a better hand hug five. Oh, dude, I never saw. I've never seen that before.

Speaker 2: 1:14:49

That's cute uh, it's so cringy you're the one cringing I'm. I'm enjoying it. I thought that was awesome, okay yeah so what are you gonna?

Speaker 1: 1:15:02

I was going to say that's a good segue, as it were, is does God heal every time man.

Speaker 2: 1:15:12

This is such a I kind of went over this once.

Speaker 1: 1:15:15

Yeah, but not it was a terrible. It was a terrible podcast. It didn't go well. That's why I didn't post it. But we don't have to go over this question for like 30 minutes. We can just kind of discuss it a little bit oh okay, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 1:15:30

I don't know if god necessarily heals every time, or are you saying like, hmm, like what happens when he doesn't heal? Like when people pray and it's like oh, I didn't get healed. Yeah, Do you really think it's people's? Well, you must not have been believing.

Speaker 1: 1:15:47

Yeah, do you think it's people's unbelief? I don't know where that comes from.

Speaker 2: 1:15:53

There's a Bible verse about that.

Speaker 1: 1:15:55

There is, but there's also the Bible verse on it's John 5. Dude, he knows, at the pool of Bethesda or whatever it's called.

Speaker 2: 1:16:07

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:16:07

There's that cripple who, or, I'm sorry, he's paralyzed, I think, and Jesus heals him. So like, pick up your bed and walk.

Speaker 2: 1:16:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:16:19

And the guy doesn't know who he is. So and my question is how is he healed or, I'm sorry, how can he have unbelief if he doesn't even know who Jesus is? You can't have unbelief in something you don't know of.

Speaker 2: 1:16:37

Right. I think it's through Jesus' belief in his father that he was healed.

Speaker 1: 1:16:44

Right, would that be? Couldn't that be the case for today, then?

Speaker 2: 1:16:50

yeah, I think it could be. Cause I feel like people focus too much on healing in general.

Speaker 1: 1:16:55

Yeah, so do I, I think.

Speaker 2: 1:16:57

I'm like that's not the point of why Jesus came, was it? Yeah, yeah, I know.

Speaker 1: 1:17:02

I agree. I actually think that, well, I'm going to finish this, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:17:06

Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: 1:17:08

Um, where were we? We were, yeah, if I just, I just don't think your unbelief could ever have power over Jesus's power to heal you.

Speaker 2: 1:17:22

Right, yeah, if he wants to heal you, he will.

Speaker 1: 1:17:25

That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 1:17:26

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:17:27

I think even if you say no, I don't want it, you think that's strong enough to stop him.

Speaker 2: 1:17:32

No, no, no, no. Oh, my hand's way better. Why would you not want it? Though that would be my question. I don't know if you had like a broken arm deal like no dude, I want my arm broken for the rest of my life well, uh, unbelief could also be.

Speaker 1: 1:17:53

You don't actually believe that it's going to heal.

Speaker 2: 1:17:57

Yeah, but yeah, I feel like that shouldn't matter.

Speaker 1: 1:18:00

But yeah that I don't think that would matter.

Speaker 2: 1:18:03

It sounds like we're bringing a a very human argument into a very spiritual realm. Really, in my opinion, what. Not like our personal. I'm just saying like in general, healing in general, like people bring a human argument towards it and you're like dude.

Speaker 1: 1:18:24

It's a lot deeper.

Speaker 2: 1:18:25

You really think?

Speaker 1: 1:18:26

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:18:27

It's kind of like when Job was talking. You know Job argument.

Speaker 1: 1:18:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:18:33

Where it's like.

Speaker 1: 1:18:34

We're making God into what we would do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like oh you might like.

Speaker 2: 1:18:40

A lot of job's friends were like you must have sinned, you know he's like I didn't right, you know and you're like you guys are arguing about little things and then god just comes and he's like did you create the world? Were you there at the beginning of time?

Speaker 1: 1:18:52

You know that is one of my favorite chapters in the Bible.

Speaker 2: 1:18:56

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:18:56

He comes in and says all that, I think, yeah, that's very true. We make such a human argument about it. It's like like his friends are saying I think they're saying if I was God, then, yeah, I would definitely be punishing you if you did something bad. Yeah, when in reality it's like that's not what's going on.

Speaker 2: 1:19:16

I mean, that's literally what non-Christian people do about the church. They say I don't want to believe in God because I wouldn't want God that like allows sin into the world.

Speaker 1: 1:19:29

Oh right, you know, yeah, and they take a human argument when it's like you weren't there.

Speaker 2: 1:19:34

Do you know what free will is Like? You know, yeah. Do you know what God's love is? You know, no. You're not, you're human and you're thinking of it that way.

Speaker 1: 1:19:48

That is a pretty good argument, as long as we had more to back it up it was like, yeah, it's a very human argument. Yeah is when you, when you try to make god into what you would do.

Speaker 2: 1:19:56

Yeah, that's one of the biggest problems, I think, in today's society in general, I don't make the rules like I have the bible to tell me what the rules are to or whatever. You came in here the other day with a ten commandments saying to orient my life in that way you know what I mean yeah but where I was going anyways, yeah, sorry, no, I mean just destroying your argument I don't think you're really destroying not destroying it, but like totally bringing a different way, which is fine.

Speaker 1: 1:20:29

but now I want to go into what were we talking about. It was like we were going into this and then I said I wanted to finish my thought oh, you said people are obsessed with healings and stuff. Yeah, yeah. So obviously in Revelations it talks about the Antichrist, which we kind of think is like a movement. Yeah, I don't, or like a spirit, spiritual thing, not necessarily one person.

Speaker 2: 1:20:57

Right, right. A lot of people think that the Antichrist is a person and it's going to come in like a person form, and I think it's just an idea, mostly because Jesus said the Antichrist is already with us now. Right.

Speaker 1: 1:21:12

Unless the dude's thousands of years old. It's Donald Trump, dude.

Speaker 2: 1:21:17

No, I'm just gonna say bill clinton, he's still alive. Dude, how is he still alive?

Speaker 1: 1:21:24

also. I like that they're having him speak at things now. I don't want to get too into politics. Bill clinton, oh, and like talk about how immoral Donald Trump is while they're having Bill Clinton do things, just saying. That's true. As they say, make it make sense.

Speaker 2: 1:21:42

Did you know that Trump was in town today, tomorrow's voting? His last town was here.

Speaker 1: 1:21:50

Grand Rapids.

Speaker 2: 1:21:51

Yeah, he was in town, Nice. It was busy down there. Van Andel no, I think it was. What's the other one? That boy was not at the Delta Plex, no, no. The other one that's like DeVos, no, no, I want to say 21 Jump Street, but that's not. 21 Monroe the small. Yeah, yep Monroe. Yeah, I think he was 21 Monroe the small. Yeah, yep Monroe. Yeah, I think he was at Monroe. Oh, which?

Speaker 1: 1:22:17

does that?

Speaker 2: 1:22:18

only fit like 300 people.

Speaker 1: 1:22:20

Yeah, but, and that also seems a little too hip for him yeah. Like Van Andel is a nice place for like the oldies 21 Monroe.

Speaker 2: 1:22:28

Unless the line went all the way back, it could have gone way farther than I thought. Maybe it was at the Van Andel or the what is it Close to the Bob like, right behind the Bob.

Speaker 1: 1:22:40

I think it's 21 Monroe.

Speaker 2: 1:22:43

Oh, okay, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:22:46

But actually you can fit the intersection yeah isn't it the intersection? He was at the intersection.

Speaker 2: 1:22:52

I don't know which one. It is no way the one that can fit 6,000, I think Because that is not the intersection. I went to the Dermot Kennedy concert there at one of them. It's not Van Andel. It's the one downtown, the one behind the Bob, like behind the Bob or behind Eve, I guess you would call it. Well, but the club down there, we'll have to look it up. Anyways, it fits at least 3,000, because I went in there and it was like there was like a thousand in there.

Speaker 1: 1:23:28

Anyways, what we're talking about, we need to get back on track. I don't want to go down the politics route again.

Speaker 2: 1:23:35

Third time, dude. Third time's a charm.

Speaker 1: 1:23:39

So we're on the Antichrist.

Speaker 2: 1:23:41

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:23:42

In Thessalonians, he does mention the man of lawlessness. Yeah, and this is going back to what you said is he says the man of lawlessness comes to perform false signs and wonders?

Speaker 2: 1:23:57

Yeah, and healings and stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:23:58

Yeah, and that's why I think, and it's mostly the charismatic movement that is doing it. I'm sure there's other sections of Christianity, but right now I'm just going to say the charismatic movement, because it's the only one I know.

Speaker 2: 1:24:10

Yeah don't.

Speaker 1: 1:24:19

I know, yeah, they're so focused on healings and prophetic words and tongues that I think that is the way that the antichrist is going to be ushered in, because like, yeah, you make this whole generation just obsessed with those things because they are like. They'll say they go out and preach the gospel and talk about sin and and I'm sure they do, but you have to ask them about that. Usually, when they're talking about it, they're like man I experienced God and it was so awesome and he healed so many people.

Speaker 2: 1:24:44

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:24:44

And they, they're Wow.

Speaker 2: 1:24:47

Doggies.

Speaker 1: 1:24:48

Dogs are fighting and they they're.

Speaker 2: 1:24:56

they almost sound like high when they talk about it. That's kind of weird and they're super happy and they're like are you, are you here?

Speaker 1: 1:24:59

yeah, it's just like kind of it's a little off-putting sometimes it's almost like they.

Speaker 2: 1:25:05

Sometimes they they self-centered to themselves. They're like I can help this person and instead of like you know, god works through me, it's more like, oh, I can do this, you know, yeah, yeah, like, if you ever go to those like worship sessions I used to that I used to go to like all the time. Not that those are bad I'm not saying those are bad, right but I'm saying like, when people like come over and pray for you, they're like I'm going to help this person. You know, it's like maybe I'm just figuring it out, dude Like I'm good, like you know, have you ever told somebody that you actually don't need prayer?

Speaker 2: 1:25:41

No, but I felt like that, you know, like you ever feel like that, Like you're like dude I'm good, like I'm praying and it's fine, don't touch me.

Speaker 1: 1:25:56

You touch me, you know this don't touch my back. You know, this girl came to me at one of the conferences. Yeah, she's like. Hey, I just felt like I had. I was supposed to pray for you. Is there anything on your mind? And I was just like, no, there's not.

Speaker 2: 1:26:07

I can't think of anything you just straight straight say to her like no, yeah no. Like like oh, don't pray for me, yeah no, get out get out, get out of here.

Speaker 1: 1:26:19

She ended up not doing it because I just was like I don't know really off-putting, you know yeah, I was like, I'm not gonna just like just because you camp and said, said that doesn't mean that it's true yeah, why don't you just go over there and pray for me?

Speaker 1: 1:26:36

that it's true. Yeah, why don't you just go over there and pray for me from a distance? But these people, sometimes they come off as like kind of like high like we were talking about almost off-putting and kind of like self-centered, yeah, and it just seems like their focus is just on the miracles and the gifts, not the miracle worker, right? And so I think that is one of the ways that the man of lawlessness, or the Antichrist spirit, is going to be ushered in and people are going to worship it, even in the church.

Speaker 1: 1:27:10

Because, when this person comes or this movement comes and, who knows, maybe even like the hyper charismatic movement, is the antichrist. I don't know, cause we talk about it as like a movement.

Speaker 2: 1:27:23

Yeah, Movement or org could be an organization. Organization, yeah, yeah, I. I really think the the antichrist would not as a person but as an idea would come and look like the church. What better, ever twisted way that Satan can do it right.

Speaker 1: 1:27:46

Yeah, because we think that Satan is spending all his time at the Satanic temple or Las Vegas.

Speaker 2: 1:27:53

He's already won them over. Yeah, he's already won them over.

Speaker 1: 1:27:54

He doesn't need to spend his time at, like, the satanic temple or las vegas. He's already won them over. Yeah, he's already won like. Yeah, he's already won them over. He doesn't need to spend his time there, right, the people that he wants is the christians right, and if I can deceive one, I can, or a group of many yeah just kind of scary to think about, which I think in the future, I think it will be like a church versus a church.

Speaker 2: 1:28:15

You won't be like. It won't be church versus government really anymore. I think it will be a church trying to destroy, like the correct church you know what I mean. And they're like whoa, it's our religious belief.

Speaker 1: 1:28:29

I think it's going to be the Catholics.

Speaker 2: 1:28:33

I don't know. I think some Catholics might be going to heaven, Some, oh yeah me too.

Speaker 1: 1:28:39

I don't think all of them are like super whack, just like some non-denominationals are whack.

Speaker 2: 1:28:48

Some of them yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:28:52

But I think, because you think it's going to be a church versus church, that's interesting yeah, yeah, we're one.

Speaker 2: 1:29:00

One church is trying to destroy the other. I mean, you kind of already see that with like um you do.

Speaker 1: 1:29:05

It's like the reformed versus charismatic right now.

Speaker 2: 1:29:08

Oh, I was gonna say the middle east wants to destroy christians in general, like the buddhists and stuff or not? Muslim muslim yeah, wrong religion, but that's not church though, but it is to them I mean it's a religion yeah, that's true I mean I don't know that already did kind of happen with the Crusades. That is true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or the governments are just going to be like, no, you can't do Christianity anymore, and it's like, oh well, we're doing that. You're going to have to figure it out.

Speaker 1: 1:29:46

The thing is is Christianity grows?

Speaker 2: 1:29:50

When people say don't do that. Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1: 1:29:57

That's how it is in china. It's actually kind of sad here, because in china they're not allowed to worship, but they get up at 4 30 every day and worship for like two hours every day. Yeah, and then here it's. We can barely make it on sunday. And then we wonder why amer is crumbling yeah, it's true, like the pastors always make jokes.

Speaker 1: 1:30:19

Oh, you know, we're going to be here till 2 PM today and it's just like, and everyone's like, maybe we should be yeah exactly, and like everybody's like relieved that he's joking, right, but at the same time't sunday supposed to be or not even necessarily sunday but the sabbath supposed to be the day that we take in, rest and worship? Yeah, but on our sabbath we're watching for mowing lawns. Mowing lawns it's weird. There's games now like baseball games in town that you're gonna say, that's weird.

Speaker 2: 1:30:53

there's games now like baseball games in town. I thought you were going to say it's weird, there's gay people now Like I don't know why.

Speaker 1: 1:30:57

you said games, but sorry, but you got to take that out, nope. It's leaving an uncensored we're in trouble now.

Speaker 2: 1:31:04

Yes, uncensored. I'm going to make you censor. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1: 1:31:09

We're probably already canceled from our last episode anyway, you really think so. No, dang, when I think about it, it wasn't really that bad. It was just like fun.

Speaker 2: 1:31:20

Yeah, you reminded me, though I ran into like, not a cult, I wouldn't say a cult, but like what are those that are like our fatheroseph or whatever, and they have different names saint joseph or whatever? You? Know they're catholics no, but it's not. It wasn't that one, it wasn't catholic. It was like out in middle of nowhere, dude, and they built like a huge, like complex, bro, and I just went to visit because I was like I'm kind of curious and I knew there was coffee there. Wait, where was this? It was in.

Speaker 1: 1:31:58

I think it was in New Mexico. Okay, so it's not Mormon, because Mormons don't drink coffee.

Speaker 2: 1:32:06

Yeah, they definitely drink coffee, Mormons. No, no, no, I'm saying at this place oh right, I have like pictures of it. It's like huge, like it's St Something.

Speaker 1: 1:32:16

I don't remember what it was Catholic cathedral.

Speaker 2: 1:32:19

I don't think it's Catholic.

Speaker 1: 1:32:21

Cause usually Catholics are like named after St Something.

Speaker 2: 1:32:25

But I talked to the guy there for like a while and he was like, oh yeah, this is our like sect, I guess, whatever. And he's like, yeah, I've been here since I was like 19. He was like I don't know, he was close to my age and, uh, they like give up everything, like all of their money, everything. What the heck?

Speaker 1: 1:32:45

was that. I'm just like. I don't know if that banging is. It's probably just like people living.

Speaker 2: 1:32:51

Yeah, like people living.

Speaker 1: 1:32:52

yeah, hopefully um I really don't think we're being that loud. I didn't think we were no but maybe we should. No, it's really not that loud listen to it.

Speaker 2: 1:32:59

Yeah, I have no idea how.

Speaker 1: 1:33:00

No, I don't think we're being that loud. Continue. Do you think that maybe it was jehovah's witness? They?

Speaker 2: 1:33:05

drove cars. Though they drove car, they gave up everything, but like to live there but, maybe amish. It wasn't amish, because amish drive buggies, right. But even some of them had a job, like one guy had a job at auto parts and he was saying, yeah, you come here like at auto zone place, yeah, just like so random um I saw it on the side of his truck it said auto zone.

Speaker 2: 1:33:30

That's why, as it drove by, um, but they kind of just like come and they have like certain gifts and they like give into, like the society. They pretty much make their own society there and, uh, build all the structures that are there. But what struck me was like how devoted they were, because they go through psalms, all of the Psalms, in a single week. That's a lot. That's like 150, right, yep? So I think they must do like I don't know 36 a day. And then he was talking about like yeah, we have like morning, afternoon, you know, afternoon and night mass or whatever it is, or you know whatever, sounding more and more catholic every time.

Speaker 2: 1:34:16

I don't know if it's mass, I don't know if he said mass or or like he was like you can go listen in, and they were like chanting and stuff like, and not like chanting, but it was like singing, ish. Yeah, like that, like, like really weird, like. But I just, but I just admired their devotion to it. You know what I mean. Yeah, but they had their own book. It wasn't the Bible, so I know it wasn't like. That's how I knew it wasn't Catholic Because they had their own book.

Speaker 1: 1:34:50

Catholics have the Torah, though I think they read the.

Speaker 2: 1:34:53

Torah. It's weird I think they use like all of them, though I think they read the. It's weird I think they use like all, all of them, though, like they read all, like the torah, the, um, they have their own and then they have. I think they read the bible too. So it's like it's kind of weird. I'm like this is a in between, but they act like this guy and I don't know. It's like saint george or saint peter or something like that. Um is like their savior, like jesus christ is for us, like they act the same way you know what I mean joseph smith.

Speaker 1: 1:35:24

Maybe that's joseph okay, this one's hard, because that sounds mormon, because mormons have their own book yeah, maybe, maybe it is Mormon. And maybe some of them drink coffee and they always have very nice temples.

Speaker 2: 1:35:40

And the guys and the girls were separate dorms too, like it's not like you married and you get like a you know a woman or whatever. They had separate dorms Anyways.

Speaker 1: 1:35:57

That sounds Mormon, and especially because it's in New Mexico, which is close to Utah.

Speaker 2: 1:36:02

Yeah, maybe it is.

Speaker 1: 1:36:03

But a lot of Mormons don't drink coffee, but they do have their own book, mormon, the Book of Mormon, and they still think that Jesus is savior. But they give sorry, they give Joseph Smith, like they put them very high yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:36:24

Maybe it's just like a lead off of that and they kind of keep, keep other things, like they kind of create their own little society.

Speaker 1: 1:36:32

Do you have a picture of it that we can look up after this?

Speaker 2: 1:36:35

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:36:37

Yeah, I would have to search a little bit, but I'll put it in the description, like we discussed this at this time. This is what it is Cause we're not going to we're not going to find it right now.

Speaker 2: 1:36:46

What'd you just do?

Speaker 1: 1:36:49

I muted my mic.

Speaker 2: 1:36:50

Oh, I thought you muted mine because all of a sudden I cut out. Yeah, nah, okay, I did not cut you out. Anyways, where were we going with that? We keep on getting off topic. I don't think we were getting off topic, or not off topic, but I guess it was a story about what you were saying.

Speaker 1: 1:37:12

It was a branch off of what.

Speaker 2: 1:37:18

We were talking about a bunch of other religions Like oh, whether we thought Baptists were like or Catholic were going to be. Right yeah, going to go to heaven.

Speaker 1: 1:37:30

I didn't say whether or not they were going to go to heaven. I thought it was going to be a Catholic church coming for the regular church, because Catholic church actually means universal.

Speaker 2: 1:37:43

Yeah, which is pretty creepy, yeah, but I feel like they have had this fight for a long time.

Speaker 1: 1:37:52

For about 500-something years, because the Reformation happened.

Speaker 2: 1:37:55

Yeah, where there's just like different branches, you know, non-denominational Catholic.

Speaker 1: 1:38:01

Non-denominational is a denomination.

Speaker 2: 1:38:05

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, and there's Baptist Reformed.

Speaker 1: 1:38:11

Lutheran Presbyterian Promise Keepers.

Speaker 2: 1:38:18

Black Lives Matter. Oh my God, Just kidding. Yeah, well, that's about it. You can't say that.

Speaker 1: 1:38:26

I'm not censoring you. All right, Some people are going to hear and they're going to judge you. That's good, and they're probably going to be like Caleb, you can't have Ethan Scott around anymore.

Speaker 2: 1:38:36

They just need Christ.

Speaker 1: 1:38:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:38:45

Oh, I was going to say that one Bible verse that says like you will come in my name and like I'll say I never knew you.

Speaker 2: 1:38:53

Yeah, then I'll say I never knew you. Yeah, then I'll say you never, I never knew you, like you didn't know me, and I think I feel like that's more pointing towards like actually having a relationship with christ instead of like, like, like you said before, like a lot of those people almost use that and they don't like look at God. They more like they're like who's the next person I can heal? How can I use this gift?

Speaker 1: 1:39:22

You know, yeah, yeah, it's, definitely it's.

Speaker 2: 1:39:25

So they're looking at the wrong thing.

Speaker 1: 1:39:27

Yeah, and the thing is is they say they're in a relationship, but their actions do not speak that.

Speaker 2: 1:39:35

That's what I would say.

Speaker 1: 1:39:37

That's where actions speak louder than words comes in again, because they'll say like oh, we love Jesus and all this, but it's like but you're against people suffering and you're against this and that, and it's like people can suffer and love jesus. Yeah, it's like that that happens happens frequently actually.

Speaker 2: 1:40:00

No, they have to have all their i's dotted and t's crossed yeah, the book of ethan scuttleations well, I think that's. That's kind of why I had a problem with that FOI woman at Rez. I'm not trying to down Rez or anything. Cat's out of the bag. Yeah, I have to now I mean they bring her there?

Speaker 1: 1:40:25

Yeah, that's not us.

Speaker 2: 1:40:27

But it's all prosperity gospel and you don't necessarily need that. You think you're going to become a christian and then all of a sudden you're a millionaire. Like no, you're still in your crap. Like you're still, you might still be in the same economic class. And just because you're in that lower economic class, sorry you may still struggle with sin too.

Speaker 1: 1:40:48

Yeah, like it's not just. It seems like a lot of people put jesus onto this like magic miracle. Well, I don't.

Speaker 2: 1:40:59

He is a miracle worker, but watch your words right, god will come through this castle and strike you with lightning. You think that smell is hard.

Speaker 1: 1:41:11

My lightning is harder anyways okay, uh, they think he's, they just accept him and then boom, everything changes right away.

Speaker 2: 1:41:26

Yeah then I feel like people experience that and that doesn't happen. Then they're like well I'm, why don't I need this?

Speaker 1: 1:41:35

Yeah, I feel like it turns them away from.

Speaker 2: 1:41:37

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:41:37

If you have someone up at the pulpit saying you're coming to Jesus, you're going to get rich or your goals and dreams are going to come true, yeah and they're like. I want that. Yeah, give me that. I'll take Jesus right now. Sign me up, give me the paper.

Speaker 2: 1:41:52

Yeah, if I was in a desert and I needed water, I would definitely take the water Right.

Speaker 1: 1:42:02

Like whatever I got to do, I'm in now and they accept Jesus, and then none of that happens. Yeah, and so then they get turned away from church and then they go affirm everybody else who hates church yeah they're like yeah, I went and they said this. They're like see, I told you, that's how it was yeah and then those people aren't going to come. So I feel like it's actually like hurting the church. Yeah, but the thing is, having people like that come into your church brings money, it's true.

Speaker 2: 1:42:34

Because people want to give and a lot of Granville is kind of that way. I mean, they're a pretty rich area, let's be honest.

Speaker 1: 1:42:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:42:44

Except for, maybe, where you live.

Speaker 1: 1:42:50

You're on the edge. Yeah, I'm like, I'm on that on that. Uh, that the different margin, not margin, mart, what is it margin?

Speaker 2: 1:42:58

I can't believe I just said the fake butter thing on the line, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 1:43:01

Yeah, margin a different margarine yeah different, margarine not different margin. Dude, you got butter I can't believe it's not butter, but yeah, and I think like they.

Speaker 2: 1:43:14

Now we should preface that with like saying like like it does. It does things spiritually, but not necessarily like metaphysically. You know what I mean. Like I feel like we should have a claim disclaimer in there because if we're leaving that, how right where people might take this and be like, wow, maybe I shouldn't be a christian. Like I feel like we should have a disclaimer in there because we're leaving that out Right when people might take this and be like, wow, maybe I shouldn't be a Christian or something. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:43:40

No, yeah, there's definitely the spiritual aspect where you come to Jesus and you know it's not that you no longer want to sin. You get to a point where you no longer want to. I think yeah, I don't think it happens right away, but I think when you walk with Jesus, after some time it's like it's no longer a chore not to sin. It actually feels good not to yeah, and I think that is a spiritual thing. I really do, yeah, but I think that comes with time and so we need to Amen, dude.

Speaker 2: 1:44:13

Preach it. Come on, I just Dude. How are you not a pastor? I do not want to be a pastor. See, those are the people that he chooses.

Speaker 1: 1:44:21

Yeah, think about Moses. Yeah, well, that was Moses' story, that ain't Caleb's. But what do you?

Speaker 2: 1:44:29

mean You're doing it right now, let's go.

Speaker 1: 1:44:32

Not necessarily.

Speaker 2: 1:44:34

Who says you can't do it through a podcast? Sure, I mean, you're sort of doing it.

Speaker 1: 1:44:40

Anyways, you were saying I don't remember what I was saying. This is a terrible person.

Speaker 2: 1:44:46

Just interrupting you in the middle of your rant, dude.

Speaker 1: 1:44:52

I was saying we need to. There needs to be when you're teaching the gospel, like you need to teach. That's the importance of reading, like how this began. Yeah, the whole New Testament, let's go. Yeah, back to the beginning. Wow, wow, wow. You have to read the whole New Testament, because I think when you're leaving certain parts out, because Paul talks about it, I think in Romans, he's like I know what I'm not supposed to do, but I do what. I don't want to do, something like that.

Speaker 2: 1:45:27

I don't know exactly what the verse is yeah, I think I read that not too long ago. I don't know where it is but I don't remember. Cause I don't remember ever.

Speaker 1: 1:45:39

But he's like. He's saying like I know, I know like I'm not supposed to do this, but I want to do this. Like I I'm not supposed to sin, but I want to like he's kind of explaining the process of coming to Jesus and I think if we taught more in depth of New Testament but all the megachurches that I have been to only preach like those buzzword verses like the popular ones.

Speaker 1: 1:46:07

Right, they don't teach really the brimstone and fire verses that we think of, yeah, or even just like in-depth ones, like it doesn't necessarily have to be brimstone and fire.

Speaker 2: 1:46:20

I feel like a lot of the New Testament is like self-explanatory. If you just said that in church you'd be good enough.

Speaker 1: 1:46:30

You mean when you read it in context?

Speaker 2: 1:46:32

Yeah. Like literally just read it it like that's all you have to do, like it's that simple.

Speaker 1: 1:46:41

I don't know, but you don't even have to explain it right, but you do when you read it out of context and then they make up what they wanted to say yeah and then it's the wrong message yeah, yeah, I I feel getting back to the gospel, you know is? I don't.

Speaker 2: 1:47:01

I feel I feel afraid for the church that I'm at now because, like peace church out in granville is getting bigger or in granville in middleville is getting bigger and it's like man, I just I don't want it to go down the same roads that I've seen other bigger churches go and once they get bigger they look at the money, or-.

Speaker 1: 1:47:22

Yeah, and they don't want to anger as many people, because they want that revenue coming in when I'm like I just hope they stay with the gospel first and they have.

Speaker 2: 1:47:33

And even when I got back was like the first one week that I got back he was just like he brought up the gospel like in the message and I was like, yep, this is where I'm meant to be. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:47:46

So right now it's still good, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:47:49

In other words, I'm saying like right now there's still even this. This last Sunday he brought up Jesus on the cross again. It was like, yeah, he puts it in every single one. Bringing it back to the gospel. Yeah, why is this important? Bring it back to the gospel.

Speaker 1: 1:48:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:48:04

Because when you don't, it's not preaching, it's true. It's your opinion.

Speaker 1: 1:48:10

Yeah, and we're not looking at Jesus at that point, we're looking at ourselves.

Speaker 2: 1:48:15

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:48:16

And and there is it doesn't mean that it's going to fail just because it's growing, because there is some mega churches that still hold to a true biblical gospel. It is possible. So I I think there's hope for peace church. As far as the church that I go to, he said he doesn't want to expand the church that he's at.

Speaker 2: 1:48:39

He wants to make another branch because he likes being able to know everybody in his congregation yeah, I mean Peace did that once and they still grew up too big where they're expanding the building.

Speaker 1: 1:48:54

I'm sure it happens, but I'm thinking he's probably going to make it more local.

Speaker 2: 1:49:00

What do you mean? You mean for your church, right.

Speaker 1: 1:49:05

He's probably not thinking I'm going to build one out in Holland. You might build one close to Byron Center again and just have it be Keep it real.

Speaker 2: 1:49:16

Close Center again yeah, and just have it be Keep it real close, yeah, and then have another pastor, just have it next door, be like that's our south campus, this is our north campus. Right, we're going to build the east and west someday.

Speaker 1: 1:49:29

But it is really nice when you have that small congregation, because everybody knows each other. The pastor knows everybody. I mean, baptisms are a huge deal. The pastor himself gets in the water and has somebody come in and the person that's getting baptized is dressed in a big white gown and they say their name and everything, and it's like a very personal and intimate experience. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, and I don't think he wants to ruin that, I think he wants to keep that, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:50:02

Can I bring up something kind of on the same topic but a little bit different? No, oh, okay, yeah, you can. Thanks, caleb. What do you think about? Even in your church? Or like we talked about res, we talked about peace, like who is a successor? Like do you think that they come to a problem when it's like like I don't know how old your pastor is. Is he getting older or not? Really he's like a kind of young guy to be maybe 40 ish.

Speaker 2: 1:50:35

Okay, so he's about 100, um, just kidding. Uh, okay, 40 that's. That's still pretty young, I don't know, I guess res like a little older but even I look at peace too, like he's probably close to his 40s, but I still think about it. I'm like who's gonna take this over? Like who going to take that baton?

Speaker 1: 1:50:54

you know, yeah, is that what you're asking, like, who's going to take it?

Speaker 2: 1:50:59

Yeah, yeah. Do you think they're setting themselves up to have a good successor that's going to do the same stuff? I guess, and sometimes I don't feel that, like in peace, like I'm like man, this one's gone.

Speaker 1: 1:51:17

You know, as we stand today? Yes, I do.

Speaker 2: 1:51:23

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:51:23

Because they've had youth like youth takeover, where, like the youth preaches and the, the kid in the youth was preaching, it was like oh, he was like.

Speaker 2: 1:51:35

Oh, he was like that's pretty good we might have something here.

Speaker 1: 1:51:40

I remember one of the lines that he used was he was preaching on the talents. Yeah, he's like, and if you don't use the talents that God gives you, well, it's not looking good for you, and he didn't know how to exactly put it into words but I mean that made enough sense to me. Yeah, right, and so as of right now, I think that that years is good, that good to go yeah, good to go, but it just seems like the more time passes, the more every church around me is starting to fall yeah with theological issues or, like the pastor, has some weird moral issue yeah, I feel like as as churches, we don't really address that

Speaker 2: 1:52:26

in general address what that if you fail, like, let's just say, a pastor has an affair, yeah, we just kick him out, what do? You think should be done? Why is there no like helping him to get better? You know what I mean? Yeah, Like. I feel like the church should be like a hospital. We come to help you. Instead, we treat it like a prison. Guess what you're? You're outcast. Well, I don't know, maybe a prison is bad. You're locked up for the rest of your life.

Speaker 1: 1:53:05

You're never getting back in here well, I guess the next question in that is like should they come back to the pulpit?

Speaker 2: 1:53:13

I don't know necessarily say right away. Obviously I think, yeah, taking some time, yeah, they should just be a congregation member for a while.

Speaker 2: 1:53:23

Yeah, because they have to be humbled and almost relearn and getting just people back on the right page, where it's like, yep, I messed up, it's going to take a while to get me back, maybe five years, whatever but I feel like we just kick people out or get a story talked about us and it's like I don't feel like God would just, you know, I don't think Jesus would just do that, you know. Just be like, yep, nope, you're not good, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:53:53

Yeah, yeah, I think they should go through some type of counseling, because obviously you need counseling if you go doing it there Like that's usually like a huge integrity issue For sure, and then spiritually you were not doing well if you did that. Yeah, I don't think.

Speaker 2: 1:54:17

And not even maybe not even come back to the pulpit, but like you're literally outcast from the church. That's what I'm saying, like where it's just totally drastic, where all this, you know, and maybe they take a break from even being on staff for a while. Yeah, but bringing them back to the church staff for a while, yeah, but bring them back to the church. This is your home.

Speaker 1: 1:54:38

Yeah, I don't think that they should be outcast. I think that's weird.

Speaker 2: 1:54:41

But I feel like a lot of churches do that Really you don't, or society kind of outcasts them like, plays them as a real bad guy.

Speaker 1: 1:54:52

Of course society's going to Well, yeah, that's's true, I can't change that I just know, uh, like matt chandler had that thing and he does, did we?

Speaker 2: 1:55:05

watch that video. Is that the guy that we watched that video with at eli's like a long time ago, that he was like talking or texting some girl, some lady and he was married?

Speaker 1: 1:55:19

Is that?

Speaker 2: 1:55:19

is that that story? Yeah, yeah, like that guy, I feel like didn't, didn't he get outcast like pretty hard or it was like I don't think, so I think he did.

Speaker 1: 1:55:29

I think they were like telling him to step down and they were going to like work with them.

Speaker 2: 1:55:36

Yeah and everything, but they worked with them Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:55:40

I think in that situation it was how they did it right.

Speaker 2: 1:55:44

Yeah, yeah, and that's one example. But who was it? Elevation Church, I think. Yeah, wasn't it an elevation church that they had like that big scandal, like the two head pastors Hillsong oh, hillsong, is that what I'm saying. Yeah, wrong stuff. Oh yeah, watch that documentary yeah, yeah, where it's just like I get that you're pushing pretty hard and I understand that, but like didn't he get totally like chopped off? I thought he did in that, I think so, like not only from society, but the church probably just like.

Speaker 1: 1:56:31

Yeah, which I think the church is in that sense caving to society. Yeah, because society wants them to kick that past route, like, oh, he did so wrong, he should not be part of you at all, get rid of him. Yeah, and so really like the churches falling to society and doing what they want to do to appease them when in reality. They should have taken him in and said and work with them, yeah, like, let him just be like a congregation member, like he can attend church, but he's not on staff right now yeah but I agree, yeah, I think they didn't do that because they want to please the world, which is crazy to think about.

Speaker 2: 1:57:14

Yeah, and it's just having an internal investigation about it and then figure it out. Figure it out, dude.

Speaker 1: 1:57:23

Figure it out A little.

Speaker 2: 1:57:25

Canadian there? Yeah, Figure it out. You know some people on the trail. They always say they always think that I'm from Canada. Really yeah, Really yeah, why? Cause they hear my Northern accent.

Speaker 1: 1:57:39

We have Northern accents. Yeah, do I Hard, hard, yeah, so if I went somewhere they would know.

Speaker 2: 1:57:50

If you went somewhere, like somewhere where yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:57:53

We're different.

Speaker 2: 1:57:54

We don't say, like a boot, though, a beat, a beat, a beat about it would be like about but when we were in kentucky, those kids did not know what we were talking about.

Speaker 1: 1:58:07

Remember that, yeah, yeah, so that's true what do you mean?

Speaker 2: 1:58:11

they didn't? Oh, we talk fast.

Speaker 1: 1:58:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:58:14

That's what it is. We talk really fast and they talk a little bit slower down south. They got the drawl.

Speaker 1: 1:58:20

They got that laid-back drawl, Just like when we were playing Euchre and that DNR guy was just like oh, you guys got some cards going. Well, nobody's in trouble here. We just were talking about how we're having like some more exploration from caves tomorrow, the ones that are less popular, and he was just like really nice, yeah, not like the dnr here, which is okay.

Speaker 2: 1:58:44

You guys got to keep it down that was totally funny when he said that, like I laughed internally. I was like it was I didn't think I was in trouble. Anyways, we'd probably get up and beat your, anyways.

Speaker 1: 1:58:57

Normally, when the DNR is approaching at a campsite, it's like you're being too loud, or something.

Speaker 2: 1:59:02

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's true. So, I think that's why he lied with that. Oh yeah, he told us about some viewing thing. Yeah, yeah, now I remember what you're talking about. What was I talking? Oh, our S's, we say them really hard, like when we sing. You'll notice it if you go to a church service and you'll just hear the S's, like you won't stop hearing that. And then our T's and our D's are like kind of like hard too, like we emphasize them a lot.

Speaker 1: 1:59:33

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:59:37

Well, especially singing with the s, but maybe not as much with the t's and d's.

Speaker 1: 1:59:39

I feel like my t's aren't that hard, because if I say like heart, I'm gonna be like yeah t my heart heart my heart hurts heart yeah, but most people say heart.

Speaker 2: 1:59:50

I don't though, and and so like that hard T or hard Hard.

Speaker 1: 1:59:58

If something's hard, you have that, I don't. If something's hard, I'm going to be like, oh, that's hard.

Speaker 2: 2:00:06

I'm saying most, most Michigan people do In the asses, especially the asses, like we have hard asses like snake, snake, snake. Yeah, and I'm saying that's hard ass.

Speaker 1: 2:00:22

I'm saying I don't have a hard t or d okay I think you do but okay, if I, but like I'm saying like, oh, you hurt me, that's not a hard T, yeah, this would be. You hurt me, would be.

Speaker 2: 2:00:44

But if I'm like how I normally talk is oh, that hurt. It's almost like a hurt. Well, maybe you're just anomaly there, caleb.

Speaker 1: 2:00:50

Yeah, maybe I am, you're just anomaly, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:00:54

Anyways, I went down. I actually went down to, well, wait, what's in Kentucky? I thought it was St Louis. Wait, st Louis is Kentucky, isn't it? Missouri? Yeah, st Louis, missouri. And there was Kentucky people there, missionaries there, and they were like, yeah, you have an accent. And we were like we, you have an accent. And we were like we think you have an accent because you're southern-ish, you know that like slower.

Speaker 1: 2:01:19

Yeah, kind of like y'all y'all and like all that, yeah y'all.

Speaker 2: 2:01:23

We conformed really quickly to Kentucky accent or southern accent. Like within a week, we were only down there for a week and like when we came back, we sounded. Like within a week we were only down there for a week and, like when we came back, we sounded um. So I went. I used to go to um, a smaller church when I was younger. It was right next to hutsville. It's no longer there. It used to be right next to hutsville high school, um. But yeah, we went down there for a mission trip just to help out. I mowed a bunch of lawns. It was fun, nice. Yeah. So Florida? No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1: 2:02:06

Florida.

Speaker 2: 2:02:07

Yeah, hurricane just because we were talking about missionary work. Hurricane Milton yeah, it's crazy, so I want to go get some B.

Speaker 1: 2:02:21

That sounds kind of nice actually.

Speaker 2: 2:02:22

Yeah, yeah, are we good here Do?

Speaker 1: 2:02:25

you think yeah, we're two hours in. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:02:27

Did you have any other thoughts on any of the conversation that we had left, or?

Speaker 1: 2:02:33

I don't think so. And if we did, we could always cover it another time yeah, there's always more time.

Speaker 2: 2:02:38

I can't wait to do this again, dude, seriously, yeah, I was looking forward to this, like all day, dude. I was like driving and I was like dude I'm gonna and I didn't talk to anybody. No, I'm just kidding, I just say my words up for now.

Speaker 1: 2:02:52

Yeah, well, like my, my throat is hurting because two hours is a long time for me oh yeah, I'm good, I could probably keep it going.

Speaker 2: 2:03:01

If you really wanted to dude, stop I could too, but I don't want to.

Speaker 1: 2:03:05

I don't want to edit that much, like the last one took a long time to edit. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I, I'm going to Two hours is good for now.

Speaker 2: 2:03:14

You might have to edit that pause in the middle. But what pause? The one I was trying to look up the crap.

Speaker 1: 2:03:21

Yeah, we were talking during that. It'll be fine People will have a nice little break. It'll be a commercial break for them.

Speaker 2: 2:03:27

What the heck was that? Was that even us? I don't know that. I don't know that, didn't even sound like us, dude, dude. What if there's? I started listening to like or started watching reels that were like scary things and then I had that very bad, like nightmares last night. So don't do that right before you go to bed that noise sounded like it came from in here yeah, it did like it almost sounded like it was that book over there.

Speaker 2: 2:03:52

I don't know not like it sounded like it almost sounded like it was that book over there. I don't know not like it sounded like it came from upstairs, unless something just fell over. I don't know I don't know. I'm gonna look around all right, everybody dude, there's a ghost, we're haunted next podcast?

Speaker 1: 2:04:09

just kidding, stefan and you yeah, anyway everybody. Thanks for listening and have a blessed week bye love you.