Unhinged Christian
Welcome to Unhinged Christian Podcast, where we dive deep into the stories and perspectives that challenge conventional religious thought. Join me, Caleb Parker, your host and fellow seeker, as we embark on a journey to explore spirituality, faith, and humanity from a refreshingly open-minded perspective.
In each episode, I sit down with guests from diverse backgrounds and walks of life. From artists to activists, scientists to philosophers, we engage in candid conversations that transcend the boundaries of traditional Christian discourse. Together, we unravel the complexities of belief, doubt, and the human experience in the context of modern society.
Whether you identify as a devout believer, a skeptic, or something in between, Unhinged Christian offers a space for exploration and discovery. No topic is off-limits as we challenge assumptions, confront taboos, and embrace the richness of our shared humanity.
Join us as we navigate the intersections of faith, doubt, and everything in between. Tune in to Unhinged Christian and open your mind to a new dimension of spiritual inquiry.
Unhinged Christian
029: Faith and Machines: A Tale of Creativity and Challenge. With Brandon Kamphuis
I apologize beforehand for the dog barking and the squeaky chair. I live in an apartment right now and am saving up for my own studio. I tried my best to mute these extra sounds but I can only do so much Bear with me along this journey and thanks for listening.
Brandon is currently working as a worship director and volunteers at the local robotics team as a coach and mentor to middle schoolers.
What if the path to becoming a worship leader was filled with unexpected turns and creative hurdles? Join us as we share the journey of navigating the worship director application process, where recording worship songs with minimal equipment reveals the true essence of musical diversity across church styles. Discover the unique dynamics of working in small versus large church communities, and how each offers a distinct experience in fostering connections and planning services.
Explore the fascinating intersection of music and robotics, as we recount personal experiences in appreciating the nuances of music and the importance of balancing song elements. From orchestrating worship services to engaging young minds in robotics, learn how volunteering and adaptive communication can enhance productivity and bring fresh perspectives to life's challenges. Hear about the strategies for improving service flow in church settings and the enrichment gleaned from blending passions.
Funding challenges, awards, and the delicate balance between teaching and competition—robotics programs offer a world of insight. Listen in as we unravel the financial intricacies of school robotics and the relentless pursuit of the Inspire Award, emphasizing the vital role of fundraising and mentor involvement. Reflect on the broader implications of faith, spirituality, and belief in the unseen, as personal anecdotes weave through discussions of divine signs, cryptids, and living a purposeful life.
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application email like they asked me a bunch of to send them a bunch of material um church and I said I sent them some recordings of of me leading a service and stuff and since I didn't have any recordings of me leading like an actual service and I just recorded myself playing do a couple worship songs and that was as good as I could, so I could do it.
Speaker 2:So recording on the drums on the piano.
Speaker 1:So I I would uh, just kind of go all in one take because I didn't want to keep pausing and then playing, because I just recorded on my phone, like the actual um audio was through my computer, um, but then the, the visual was just my phone camera. So I would like just like wave my hands in front of the camera and then give like a thumbs up, as like before every take, so I can eventually find the the one and line it up with the, with the video, which is kind of funny.
Speaker 2:But so when you sent it in, it was lined up with the video. Yeah, yeah nice.
Speaker 1:It was kind of a weird process because I don't I didn't want to buy like a nice um, like I didn't want to buy speakers and and like a nice set of speakers for my keyboard and try to like find my like a nice camera to buy too. So my phone camera is just fine, like I don't. It didn't really need to be anything extra Right More so the audio, I think, is they just wanted to see the and in here how I just go through a song, I think so it was fun.
Speaker 2:Was that for your uh new position at the church as a worship leader?
Speaker 1:Yep. So I applied to a couple of places and it was just the same thing pretty much. So it was different songs for every place, though, which was kind of fun because the church that I'm at now they don't typically play a ton of new stuff. It's more of mid-2000s, probably late-2000s, so this brand new stuff that comes out probably not on their radar. It would just be a little awkward for the people that are there In a good way. But not like I'm complaining about it, it's just a different style that they're used to. You know, I'm complaining about it, right? Um, it's just a different style that they're used to. Um, and some of the other places I I apply to, they uh, are very much like, uh, like, even like res, I would say like, very like let's play this more upbeat like almost pentecostal gospel type stuff yeah stuff that you hear on the radio a little bit more.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying that it's bad, but definitely uh it's, I'm used to hearing all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Like you're saying it's bad, brandon, I know right I'm used to hearing all that stuff already because I've been to different places, which is kind of nice, so sometimes I forget how, um, how many people back at home maybe not are not used to going to a place like, like um, like res, life or like the foundry is another one. That's like kind of being like hip is so it's a word, I guess, yeah, yeah, that that's not a word that I like using with church, with that, with that church, but seems like right, but I know, I know what you're trying to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, I probably shouldn't be naming these churches either, but I'll I'll try to refrain from that, I'll just yeah say, I'm going to tell them, I'm going to tag them in all the clips. They just have like a massive spike in like foundry viewers. As everybody starts commenting, it's like who is this guy? Good thing we didn't hire him.
Speaker 2:Right, Uh, so are you just playing at that church that you're at right now, or are you still kind of uh?
Speaker 1:so I, I'm, I'm worship directing, so I'm just planning out services, whatever. Um the, the sermon is that week, Then I, then I try to plan it out accordingly.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's, that's the fun part. That's something that I that I enjoy doing at uh or while I was interning there, um cause I got to work with like the staff really closely, which I think is not typical in a, in a bigger church.
Speaker 1:I think it's kind of like just focus more on the music side of things and then you know if it so happens to line up with the word or the message and that's. That's fine, um. But I I enjoy working closely with um, like the small staff that they have there, like the two or the one lead pastor, because I don't.
Speaker 1:I think some of the other places I've seen, it can kind of be like even at, even at Res where I was volunteering, it's like, you know, the main worship pastor does his own thing, yeah, and then the rest of the volunteers are kind of left, you know, to do their thing, or like interns, like I think Mackenzie was in training at the time, and it's like this is when I first started playing and or volunteering to play and like even even the worship leaders for like specific ministries there, like young adults and in high school they're kind of are separate.
Speaker 2:So you're, so you're saying you like the fact that the whole team is kind of one team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a huge benefit, I think, in working as an actual whole staff sense.
Speaker 2:Right, it's more of like a full community.
Speaker 1:I think it comes with its own challenges too, like for both sides of it, right.
Speaker 1:Like at a bigger church, I think it can be hard to connect individually more because there's so many people, um, but at this church, like plus, I've grown up there, so I know most of the people that, like the older people that are that have been there for a while, um, and that helps, um, but it's definitely a lot closer knit, I feel like there's there are some things that I um that can be more personal, like when you're having conversations with people you know, right, um, I don't have to like find a group and just hang out with them, but, which is which is good. I really enjoyed it. It kind of forces me to uh, always be aware of what um people may like accommodating for, not just volunteers, but, you know, kind of being more open to what people may be going through on a Sunday morning, right, not everybody wants to be there on a Sunday morning, so it's sometimes it's nice to you know, kind of relate to that or just say something about it.
Speaker 1:It's like, hey, thanks for coming to worship with us this morning. You know, just like some of you may be going through something rough and like hear the scripture, or maybe I'll have somebody come up and read scripture Like it's, it's fun.
Speaker 2:Do you feel that, being at a smaller church, you have more community with the congregation as a whole as well?
Speaker 1:Um, I think so. Yeah, I definitely feel that it's like I've never worked at a at a huge church. I've only volunteered at one or a couple. So it's I don't, I don't. I can't speak on like actually working at a place in terms of like staff, but in terms of like getting to know people, um, I feel like is is a lot easier, for sure at at my home church, since it's like two or 300 people, and then some of the bigger places I've been to there's there's between like one or two services for like probably like a thousand people or yeah pretty close right, yep, um, and yeah, definitely can feel like you can get lost sometimes and did you ever play in the main at res?
Speaker 1:I did not, nope a couple people mentioned like oh, I think you'd have a lot of fun trying to trying to play in the main and I never got to it. So and this was like right before I left for school too I remember Tiffany it was Tiffany or Landon they just asked me if I ever thought about playing in the main for like a Sunday morning and I told them, maybe but I know that they have more rehearsals for that.
Speaker 1:Like if I were to play on a Sunday, then I'd have to come in like once or twice for rehearsal, and I don't think it ever lined up with my schedule and they wanted to keep me for Thursday nights.
Speaker 2:So they have to find people to play. It gets hard when that happens. When you're music directing, you're doing a lot of the behind-the-scenes type stuff, but are you ever on stage with the band playing keys? Do you ever sing? Yeah?
Speaker 1:Really, I didn't know you sang yeah, it's. Uh, let's see. When I started turning there, it was last year. It was like end of may I started interning there so may of 2023?
Speaker 2:yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:And uh, I would say that's really the first time I I well, well, I had to start singing. Um, I sat down with with uh, he used to be the worship director. Now he, him and his wife moved to New York recently. Um, jeff, um and he, we do. We just kind of talked about you know what my goals were for for the time that I was there. And um, I remember right away, like right off the bat, he's like do you sing? And I'm like I sing, but I don't know if I'm good at singing and I've never had to sing for for you know anything. And uh, like I, at that point I was, I got pretty nervous up in front of people, right Cause I didn't know how I sounded, I didn't. I like I never took any vocal lessons growing up. And so he's like let's just sing a song right now. So I was like, wait, Just any song. It was the first day I think we sang. It was God so Loved, so we started out with.
Speaker 1:It was by, like we, the Kingdom, so it's kind of like a, it's like a six or it's like a four, four, you know, kind of a.
Speaker 2:Fun rhythm, yeah, or it's like a four four, you know kind of a fun rhythm. Yeah, it's like a more upbeat song yeah, um, that was pretty challenging.
Speaker 1:I probably sounded awful the first time I sang um because we weren't singing, like I wasn't. Actually it was weird, I, I was singing, but I wasn't giving it even probably like 50, just because it felt awkward to like fully sing out like if I'm on a stage it's a little different, especially when you're in a room with just like one other person I think that's harder to sing or be vulnerable versus in front of a group of people which sounds like it wouldn't be that way, but it definitely is yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's like, if you can, if you can hear yourself too, that helps.
Speaker 1:So like I've appreciated the like what in-ears actually allow to do, like I've always used in-ears for like either mixing, like my own stuff or or, you know, projects for school, but it's it's always been like I'm hearing somebody else's voice. So it's almost like. I don't know. Maybe this isn't true, maybe it's just me like, regardless of how nice the audio quality is, if I'm just listening to a song like I, it just is a song like to me, I'm not focused on, like I'm not noticing those things. So so when I, when I first started singing and like turning myself up, like I learned to appreciate all the other you know sounds coming in and actually like focusing on how to balance all those, if I ever wanted to right, and you don't want it to get like too much, right, but especially at a place like that, like it doesn't need to be super fancy, but it was just kind of neat to almost have to relearn some of that stuff as a and playing too Right, I had to relearn how to play piano, um, to help me sing better, cause at that point I was trying to like focus on the piano and just the piano and everything I can, and sometimes I just can't.
Speaker 1:So that's just the way I am. So I'm like I can't do everything fancy. It doesn't have to be super fancy. Like singing is the is how you lead Um. Like you can lead from an instrument, um, but if you're leading, if you have like a certain theme going and uh, like you want some of the songs to match the, the scripture, and you're kind of going in a direction and you want to repeat something, then you know it's a lot more focused on the vocal side of things, because that's, I think that's where most people feel connected. Um is through the vocals and then the instrument is like a secondary thing to that.
Speaker 1:Like adds everything to the color, yeah, everything everything works together, um, because you can definitely tell. Tell who's playing an instrument, even if you can't hear who's playing it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just like I can tell if you're playing bass, I can tell if Aiden's playing keys.
Speaker 2:You mean without seeing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, without seeing, and I think that's.
Speaker 2:Really, you've memorized my style, memorized your style.
Speaker 1:yeah, All the wrong notes that you've ever played uh written them down.
Speaker 1:Um, every service, every service, but that's just kind of like a maybe it's not, that's not as common for like normal people. Maybe I'm just, maybe it's just because I am a musician, or like we're musicians, so we notice a little bit of those, those smaller details. But I'm like, most of the time I I feel like that's the case for me when I'm, when I'm listening back on like a Sunday recording or like a live stream, like I'll try to really be like nitpicky on, like Not not necessarily my how I'm like my singing anymore. It's more of like how, how is like the flow of the service going?
Speaker 1:But did I have like an awkward greet or did I have, you know, did I not word this nicely or what can I always? What can I do to make it feel more like, not like maybe not rehearsed as like a good word to use, but like more inviting or like more open? I know he, jeff, really told me to focus on that. Um, whenever I started doing that on my own, like if I, if I had to do that on my own someday, if that was my job, um, he's like you really want to be involved, as involved as you can with the church, right?
Speaker 1:But then, try to accommodate for people Like, um, I guess I'll I like to spew off topic a lot, but, um, like I, I enjoy working with volunteers, um, especially for, like, leading rehearsals, um, because everybody plays differently and everybody has a different way of communicating with each other. Yeah and uh, that's been really helpful for me, especially when volunteering for, like, a robotics team, like with a bunch of friends, right.
Speaker 1:Like it's focused on. I've had to like switch my brain on and off to accommodate for kids but then also try to have that same mindset with an adult group. But it can be a little bit more. I can rely on those people a little bit more. But it's just kind of forced me to be open-minded on what's going on and try to be hyper-aware on like what's going on and try to be like hyper aware. Um, I always joke around saying like this time of year is probably my most productive time of year once robotics starts, cause it always tries. I always try to keep myself on like busy and like on my toes, so if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:But wait, what do you mean? It's the most productive. I mean, I get that you're probably more productive with robotics cause it's robotic season but how does? That make you more productive in the other areas of your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe it's not, maybe it's a combination of of the word productive and like hyper aware is is, is like another good one to use. So, like it, it kind of um, like it puts me in a good mindset to just kind of constantly be aware of what's going on.
Speaker 2:Um could it be because it's like you're so busy with robotics, it's like none of this time can be wasted?
Speaker 1:Probably yeah, because we get a limited time with the kids to build a designer robot, and then there's a bunch of other things that go with it too. So it's like how do we make the most of each meeting? It kind of translates probably over to rehearsals, like how do we make the most of this time, this one day we get to meet, and that's something I feel like obviously people will like anybody in my that does what I do, like in my shoes like that's something that they continue to work on like throughout their time at a church. I guess, like, as you get to know people, you kind of figure out how to you just kind of have to step into it. Sometimes this is like, oh, I could have done this better, like maybe I'll prepare this in advance, more for for next rehearsal, or I'll have in mind, like how, I kind of want to go through this song a little bit differently, but yeah, it's, it's fun.
Speaker 2:So how long does it take to make a robot or a robot?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, jump into robotics. We uh so every every year. Um, sometimes I forget the start date when they like to release the new game every year. I shouldn't, I shouldn't memorize this by now, but you know yeah, you really should, right.
Speaker 2:Come on, brandon.
Speaker 1:In September, um, they released a new game, um, and the field is the same every year. So, like it's a, it's a nine, sorry, it's a six by six grid and each, each tile they're like those foam tiles and each tile is like I think it's two feet by two feet and in dimensions, and then there's like a, like a plexiglass border that goes around the field. That's like a foot high, um, so that stays the same every year and then each game is different. So they'll have like, um, different, like things that you have to do in order to complete tasks, for points, um, so like last year was um, they had like, the main thing that you scored on was like this backdrop, like on one side of the field, and each. So you're, you're split up into two teams. There's red and blue team and there's two alliances per team, so there's two other. There's there's two robots competing against two robots at all times, and it's all randomized.
Speaker 2:It's never a free for all, where there's like six robots.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, where there's like six robots. No, no, no, it's. Uh. Well, yeah, it's never like everyone against everyone type deal and it's not battle bots.
Speaker 1:We get asked a lot of those uh like battle bots questions like, oh, do you guys like destroy other robots, like can you tip other robots over? And it's like no, it's like that'd be fun, but um, it's more of, like you know, completing tasks for points um, and then every school has um some sort of robotics team. It seems like, uh like you don't have to be affiliated with the school to have like to compete in this program. There's a ton of different robotics programs out there. Um, this one's the biggest one um for middle school. Um in Michigan there's like 700 teams.
Speaker 1:I think there's probably more than 700 this year because they keep growing yeah um, but yeah, we have, uh, seven weeks to build, design our design, build and then program a robot to compete at whatever regionals districts if we make it estates, um competitions after um, those seven weeks, so you can kind of pick and choose which ones you want to go to. Yeah, so, yeah, then there's so much more to it than just like the thing that moves on the field, right, right. Which is what I kind of like about this program is you can't really win by yourself. You have to, you have to actually work with like different brains.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Everyone has to work together collectively and that's the fun side, especially mentoring, getting to mentor middle schoolers. They're way smarter than I think people give them credit for, and we have. You know, we really try to pick good students that we think, would you know, can at least listen for more than like a couple of seconds Right.
Speaker 1:It's more of like we're not looking for students who necessarily can like design stuff or like. I have experience using this design software. I've experienced programming. It's like that's like part of it. But if there's a student who is really good at listening and they're super passionate about other things but they like can convey that at tryouts when we have tryouts, then we'll choose that student over some other student who may have like, who may be really good at designing something but can't listen or is like super rude, right right, it's like yeah, you've got to be a team player, yeah, and I think that makes sense right I think that translates into the music world too I think so
Speaker 1:yeah yeah, yep, um, I think, getting back to the tryouts thing, like we've been asked a lot of questions by by parents, like okay, why can't you guys have like everyone joined Right, cause even even that kid that like may have trouble paying attention or is like really rude, like those are skills that he can still work on if he joins the team Right? And uh, we only have, um, it's only, it's only my, my friend group, so so it's like five mentors and and um, the max you're allowed, uh, per team, before you have to split up into more teams, um is 15 kids and uh, so it's five mentors split up between we have 13. Um and uh, that's like we feel like it's the most, um, like comfortable number. Like each student gets to pick, kind of like what they, what they wanna, what subgroup they wanna go in. Um, so like once we actually kind of once we're done with the brainstorming part of things, like right away, like figuring out the game, like what do we want to do, how do we score?
Speaker 1:Um, the kids will do like robot brainstorming, you know, brainstorm what they want the robot to accomplish, and like how, what strategy they want to implement for the game. Um, they'll split off in a different subgroup. So like there's programming, build, design, um, marketing, which is like presentation, portfolio stuff, yeah, um, and then each one of us will kind of take over that group, um, so I kind of hop around with with. I mostly stick with design, but then I hop around with the marketing group too, because that's a lot of fun, that's like the creative side, so that you get some students who may not enjoy the catting or like the programming side of things or build, so then they can do that stuff right, like there's, there's a lot more.
Speaker 2:What is marketing? What do you mean by that Cause I'm thinking of? They're trying to sell this to other people kind of it's like promoting the team.
Speaker 1:So okay, doing a lot of community event stuff, gotcha yep, and you don't have to do that right like right if you want. Um, so there's different awards. There's like robot related awards um and then there's like team related awards, um, and the big the, the most prestigious one in this program is is called the inspire award and it's kind of the name is pretty self-inspired award.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay and uh, it's. It's kind of like like your team has really done well in all the categories, kind of thing. Yeah, um, it's like, I think in the actual description of the awards, um, it's like a role model team is like the, the first in the first sentence. So it's like, okay, what does that mean? Right, like you could have a great robot and like just destroy the competition, but then, if you like you, you don't necessarily you can't win that award every single time, even though your robot might be the greatest. Like another team that really tries to promote their, their team, by like going to like company tours or like sponsors, right, Cause a lot of teams have sponsors to give them money for the for the season Cause none of this stuff is free.
Speaker 2:Right, right Um it's not funded by the school.
Speaker 1:Um, no, no, some schools do, um, we do not. So I mean it's, I think, last season just for traveling cause, cause the kids made it to worlds last year that was around like 23 or 24, 24 and a half grand just for, just for travel, just to get there as in 20, 24 000 yep.
Speaker 2:Wow, that was.
Speaker 1:That's a lot yep, and that's crazy that was not including food so that was, that was hotel, that was everything else, though that was hotels. We, we had to figure out modes of transportation to get like around in Houston. It was in Houston, which was Houston's fun, but, um, they, they had to experience Houston for the first time. So most of them grew up here in Zealand. So, um, but yeah, it was like 23, 24 and a half grand, I think, um, if I remember correctly, correctly, just just for, like, travel and hotels and everything else, and then parents organized food while we were there and then we actually had a gofundme, and part of that money from the or I would say most of the money from the gofundme was actually for just food.
Speaker 1:So, like, each student got um like a certain amount of cash, like, if they wanted to like, if we weren't having like a team dinner or like a team meal, then they could go out and get food and stuff uh with their parents. So that was kind of fun, um. But yeah, a lot of the the fundraising stuff is is kind of up to the team. So, um, most of it is sponsors was sponsors last year. So, uh, two companies that um usually sponsor us in like robot parts kind of way, um, they gave us a bunch of money for travel when, when, when the team found out that we were making it to uh to Houston, um, so that was that was awesome. Um, and I would say most teams it's like that um, they get money from sponsors um, and like various people who want to donate money um, which is still sponsors, right, yeah, not specifically like companies. And then some teams do like different fundraisers, like Hungry Howie's is a popular one around in Zealand, like I don't know, chipotle like any restaurant, fundraiser right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the GoFundMe was just a, you know, simple idea that one of the parents had. It's like any money you can get right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It doesn't have to just go to travel. But yeah, that was, that was the travel cost side of it. Last year was was the big one. But anyways, going back to where, where would we kind of veer off from? I was talking about like season.
Speaker 2:We were. So the original question that got us in the robotics is how long does it take to make a robot?
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And then you were talking about marketing team. Oh yeah, different subgroups, yeah, different subgroups.
Speaker 1:And then you asked about, yeah, marketing. So, yeah, I think, yeah, the biggest thing with the robotics program is like this one, specifically, is, um, like promoting the program. So last year, um, the only reason they made it to worlds was they won that inspire word at the state level, which which got them, uh, got them, a slot, um, and I think they're only, they were only accepting, like in Michigan, out of like the 700 plus teams. It was like 12 slots that all allowed you to go to Houston.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so to get like in one of those slots was like a huge achievement for them. But most of it is promoting the actual program. So once we got there we kind of got a feel for, like what the competition is like at the top level.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The students still wanted to try to go for that award still at Worlds, right, and if you win the award at the state level that allows you to get to Worlds, you have the right to compete for it and actually try. They presented some presentation and then they had a portfolio that they made throughout the season. You can do all that. If you didn't win it at the state level, then you weren't allowed to partake for that award.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, which makes sense and um, so it was like the best of the best and a lot of those teams um, uh, that like made it to the finals for that award, a lot of them like started their own teams and, um, it's hard to do at the middle school level because like limited resources, right, it's not even I would say it's mostly not even a resource thing, like money thing, it's it's people who can actually like coach a team or like it's like you can't. Just it's it's really hard for somebody to step into like this program without having a couple of years of, or even like a year of experience already. It's like my buddies and I we did that all throughout in high school or throughout high school, right, so we had like four or five plus years just of that program experience.
Speaker 1:So you were doing robotics in high school yourself Yep Same program, just at the high school level.
Speaker 2:Okay. Were you one of the students in that, or were you always just a mentor?
Speaker 1:Yep of the students, yep and and so like. Coming back to mentor, we had a huge advantage because we knew what the, the actual like program was. Yeah, and like, you can be the best engineer ever and I'm not an engineer, but you can be the best engineer ever and and not know how to teach.
Speaker 1:So that's true, it can go both ways and that's a lot of fun because it's challenging for who has who's ever like coaching or mentoring too. Like you're learning right alongside the, the kids and um like the one of the best teams in michigan, uh, there are the, our sister team. Technically they're, they're the other zealand middle school. Um, zealand has two middle schools city side and creek side. Um, the coach of that team. He's, he's an actual like teacher at that school and he's like he's helped mentor the team in high school when we were in the high school team, like like a couple of years ago. Um, but him and his brother actually.
Speaker 1:So his brother, um, works at a company. He's an engineer at some company in Zealand, uh, zealand, holland, and the two of them run that team and uh, it's, it's the same thing, right, like he, he has a lot more like teaching experience, so he's really good at connecting with the kids, um, and and, and, you know, laying the foot down when he needs to, uh, but then he has his brother, who's also good at the like, very specific, like robotic stuff. Yeah, not saying that you can't be. You don't have to be an engineer to be really good at that stuff too, which is kind of cool as well. Like right, I'm not an engineer Like my all as well.
Speaker 2:Like right, I'm not an engineer. Like my all my friends went to school, but could what you're doing translate into you becoming a good engineer?
Speaker 1:absolutely. Yeah, I mean like that's not on my, like my radar anytime soon, but like part of the fun thing about robotics specifically is like this the skills that you learn, like it's not just necessarily for engineering, like I think engineering is is is a lot of problem solving.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, programming and CAD is yep, that's very specific right. Like, yeah, so they get some of the actual like robot related, like mechanical stuff, like programming stuff, so like software and mechanical. So they get that experience, um, which is still a big part of engineering regardless, which is still a big part of engineering regardless of what you're doing. There's some useful skills in there.
Speaker 1:But then, like the marketing side of things like they, they, they you have to be able to talk to people talk to people and actually like work as a team and that's the biggest part of of the whole program and like it sounds cheesy to say that, it's like, ah, it's not just about the robot experiencing all the ups and downs of last year, like from from our side, like mentors, like you know not, you know not spending a ton of late nights at the school, right, like that's a goal that we tried to have this year Um and there were other things too, like how we, how we um like didn't plan out some things very well.
Speaker 1:It's just like we're just going to kind of wing it today and and like sometimes, after the, after the, after each um, some of our meetings were like wow, we really didn't accomplish as much as we wanted to because we didn't have a game plan, like us mentors and have a game plan going in yeah, so it's like being able to admit that to like as a group after the season, um, and still say like hey, these are some things that you know we're going to try to hold each other accountable for.
Speaker 1:Like that's huge and and I think that's like the, that's one step in becoming more of a successful like team consistently. It's just like better experience for the kids but also better experience for us, right? So, because it's all still volunteer stuff, um, like uh chase he's, he's the coach of the actual team. Um, he gets paid like 1500 for the whole season from like city side directly. So the school technically gives him money, but it's it's a hundred bucks.
Speaker 1:I think, we technically equated it to like 3 cents an hour. Last season One of the kids like did some math for it and he's like, yeah, you roughly get paid like three or 4 cents an hour. It's kind of funny and yeah, so he spent most of that money just for like he bought the team like a 3d printer, um, or like bought the team like you know parts that we order from online or something, um from various vendors. So didn't really use that money for for anything personal. But I think that's what most people do if schools give them like a, they just use it for the team well is it.
Speaker 2:Could it be that eventually, when you win state or worlds enough, the school look at this and say, hey, we should so that's a great question more money into this yeah, absolutely they.
Speaker 1:They allotted us a classroom this year, um, it's it's still used throughout the day like normal teaching hours, but it's only for one hour a day and and so they're like, you guys can have this space.
Speaker 1:Um, you'll have to work alongside of whoever teaches in that classroom during the day, um, just to make sure we're not hogging up the whole classroom necessarily, right, um, but we get um, enough, we have enough space in that room, uh, for a full field. Um, and, and how it's been in years past is we would usually buy like half the field. Um, so, like, every every year when the new game's released, like as soon as it's released, you can like, you can do pre-orders too, of like what the field's going to be. So you get the field parts and like, and they have to get it to you within like a week. Yeah, um, and uh, we've only used to buy like half the field because we never had space for for the full field, even though we had all the tiles and all the other stuff to do it. We just didn't have the space, um, and we I should be aware that we didn't we didn't, we had the space, but we had to like tear it down afterwards.
Speaker 1:So it wasn't really worth, you know, spending half an hour setting up the field and then tearing it down every single meeting, especially when you meet like three or four times a week. So it's like you know, as soon as we get our own space then we'll consider it. And yeah, they gave us a classroom this year and we can use like the whiteboard in that in that room and it has a TV like on an arm. So it's pretty updated and I think, that's.
Speaker 1:I think that's even better than most teams, right, like, there's probably a lot of teams out there that don't have even a whiteboard to do stuff on or even like their own space for a field Um, but then, yeah, we're allowed to leave that, just set up Um and uh, that room is usually locked after after the one hour that um, they teach in there and uh, uh, people can like walk by the windows and see the field Um, but then we're also allowed to use, um, the space like around that that classroom. So, um, like right outside the classroom, around the corner, corner, down the hall is is is they call it the LGI center? I don't exactly know what it, what it stands for, but it's like an updated, like kind of I don't know. It's like a, like a space for just learning, so that. So they have a bunch of breakout rooms and each breakout room has like a sliding door so you can. You can have like privacy if you want it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but each room has a whiteboard and a couple of breakout rooms, um, and each breakout room has like a sliding door so you can. You can have like privacy if you want it. Yeah, but each room has a whiteboard and a couple tables set up in it, um, which is awesome because we can split them up into groups for, like, brainstorming, whatever or like, if programming wants to wants to meet somewhere else, then they can. They can go in one of those rooms and do stuff, um, like hook up a laptop or tv or something um, and then all of our tools, um, they gave us like storage space, um, like up in a loft, like downstairs, so we're everything's upstairs right now, like all of our main yeah like our fields upstairs, um.
Speaker 1:so it's kind of nice because it's separate from the rest of the school. So like whenever they have like basketball games or like sporting events going on in the gym there, then it's kind of it's not on the same floor as that, so like whenever we're meeting, sometimes it conflicts, so it's it's kind of like.
Speaker 2:Conflicts, as in noise wise, or or just like a lot of people too, right yeah.
Speaker 1:So the sometimes I can be a little distracting, right, but yeah, we, it's tremendous Just that they've been able to give us that, all that space to use. It's not like our space Right, but been able to give us that, all that space to use, it's not like our space right, but the fact that we can at least set up a full field and then store our tools somewhere like that's huge.
Speaker 2:You would just think that there would be more funding for this kind of thing because of all the I mean, you're learning a lot of valuable skills, yep, and it is it's.
Speaker 1:It's been hard for zealand, I think to to advocate for more of that, because it's a very sports heavy district which is fair, like, like a lot of a lot of there's a lot of sports and there's a lot of kids right um, but I I think that's for any tall people right who plays sports and that's for like any district, right? So I think the biggest thing, um, so I I'll say this first um the coach for for Creekside, um, I probably shouldn't say his name but uh, we had them all as a teacher in middle school.
Speaker 1:Like he's he's a great guy and we know him like personally outside of the team. Um he has been trying to advocate for. Like he's been trying to go to the board to get some more money, um, like the state to get more money for for first programs, and the biggest argument against it is there's not enough success yet because they're one of the most consistent, like best teams in the state. But there's not enough like success in Zealand is is what they say to to actually allow that and and and that's it kind of sucks, because I think that the future of kind of some of the future of learning is headed towards like robotics I've seen it a lot Like it's becoming more popular every year, so like, and each school is like implementing something really like similar to that.
Speaker 1:Like Granville, like they just had like a six, like four or five $6 million building installed just for robotics, million dollar building installed just for robotics and, uh like, part of the reason why it was so expensive is because they want to have, like they want to host events. There is what I've heard.
Speaker 1:so like that building accommodates, like them being able to to host like 40, 50, 60 plus teams there that are all using power at the same time, right, yeah like so, like that, that's part of the reason why that building is so stinking expensive and plus, it's just a separate building from just for robotics, so like there's probably a bunch of tools in there that they can use, and I know granville has, you know, a ton of people, um, that are on like different. They have multiple robotics teams for high school and in middle school, I think. Um, but yeah, I mean that'd be awesome to have that for zealand and try to get like all the schools together and, and you know, make like a small-ish building or separate building for a space for robotics or learning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just seems like that's how you get it to get more successful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think I am almost positive that I hear the dog.
Speaker 2:I know, I hope it's not going through the mics, but you never know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe a little bit, If you guys can hear it barking.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. They're probably like man his voice. I hope it's not going to the mics, but you never know. Yeah, maybe a little bit If you guys can hear it barking. I'm sorry, that's funny.
Speaker 1:They're probably like man his voice. There's like some weird reverb to it, but I think that it will happen over time. It's just it's going to take a little bit of time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just not there yet. No, not yet.
Speaker 1:But I mean maybe, maybe somebody will finally be like oh, that's, I shouldn't say finally. Maybe somebody will decide to really try to help us or advocate for that on the board, or somebody who has, you know, you need to walk into the school board and slam your clipboard down and say this is what we need.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's I think the biggest thing too, too. A lot of schools, before they even consider doing something like that is, is like they need to see numbers, like participation. So last year we had, like I think it was 63, 64 kids that tried out and we only had like four or five slots and because we, we weren't able to split off into two teams and each slot is one kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we had.
Speaker 1:We had a couple um kids graduating and we had a couple returners, right, yeah, and most of the time, like, every kid still has to try out every year, but, yep, most of the time the same returners end up making the team again, right, um, which is fair, but we still give everybody a chance, um, and I mean this year we had it was like 40, close to 50 kids. So I mean, I, I would say there's a lot of participation there, right?
Speaker 1:yeah people are at least interested in seeing what the program is and and it's it's really hard to explain what it is to parents that have no idea, because they're like I didn't like we had a couple parents come up to us last season after like over and uh, like we've gotten to know them throughout the season at that point and we've got to know their kids Right, and uh, it's like one big family at that point and they're like, wow, like we didn't, uh, we didn't realize like how much, like how involved it was. Like we didn't realize how, um, how intense like the season can be, like my kid was learning and putting in so many hours every week doing this on top of like trying to do the rest of the school.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, most people just see the end result. They don't know how much time and effort is actually put into things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's where it's kind of going off topic a little bit, like that's where the marketing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just kidding, no, kind of going off topic a little bit. Like that's where the marketing yeah no, that's where the marketing subgroup can be a lot of fun, because it's like maybe maybe part of your goal for that season in that group is figuring out how to like get your team out there. Like what is what you do? Like, like, what do you guys do?
Speaker 1:Um, and like not choosing not to step in too much as as a mentor unless you absolutely have to, is hard because you want to do that stuff and there are some things that you do do but you let them, you know, take charge. Like, if you're not letting the students take charge, and there's really no point because they're not going to have fun, they're not going to learn, and it's you're not going to learn either, right, yeah, so it almost it hurts. Like nobody wins, right, it's just mentor led, but you still want to have that level of competitiveness too, and that's the hardest balance, like we've. Again we had parents, um, that their, when their kids didn't make it, they. The biggest question was like oh, why can't you guys have like 50? Why can't you guys accept all 50 kids, 60 kids?
Speaker 1:it's like I wish we could, I really but we just can't, we don't have the mentors, and we think that that's a huge deal, because if you have like four or five kids that do everything, like half the teams more than half the teams not going to be able to do anything and they're just going to not have fun, like what learning is going to be done?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And well, that's just how the world works, though like not everybody's gonna be able to get in, and I don't know why.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I do feel bad, like, yeah right, it's sad, but it's at the same time it's just not realistic to have everybody do it.
Speaker 1:That was our this season, especially that was our because we've only been chase, has only been head coach for two years um I'll say that you can edit that out if you want.
Speaker 2:Well they don't know his last name, so nobody's gonna going to know. There's plenty of people named Chase.
Speaker 1:I'll say where he lives in his social but yeah yeah, he, this is the second year like as head coach and he's had to learn so much on, like, how to communicate with parents, one, and how to like communicate with his with, like, our friend group, because, like, none of us wanted to be teachers, right, like none of us are teaching for our jobs, right, and um, I would say even for for the rest of the guys like I, I think working at a church it's it's different because I, I, I work, I just see a lot of people and I, I just get to do a lot of that stuff. It's like part of they might get to. I'm not saying that, um, they don't get to talk to a lot of people, but it's a little bit different because I think they it's very easy for them to do their own thing, like they can have meetings all one day and then the next day they can just be, he can just be sitting in his, in his office, just, you know, working on his own project, just tuned out to the rest of the world. So sometimes it's harder for them, I think, to um to connect or actually like work on some of those other skills.
Speaker 1:It's like the best way to say it like not in a mean way at all, like I have my own things to work on, right. Like I'm not an engineer. So like all the ideas I have, when we're just talking about specifically robot ideas, like when we're prototyping stuff with the students, like I might have idea but I don't know how to explain it, or like I don't know the math behind it. I don't know how to do that. And like if I'm not honest with them, and like if I'm like, oh, I can do this by myself. Like I got it. Like like I know everything that's that's going on, if I don't listen to them, like they went to school for that, right.
Speaker 1:So you kind of all have to work together and like it helps that we're friends, right, right, like throughout high school and everything, so like we know each other very personally on that level and that's not the same for a lot of other people I don't think, and that's a huge upside to. I think our, our team, a lot of it, is run differently. A lot of the mentors may do a lot of the stuff and fair, but if I mean we care about more of the students, kind of leading more of it, even though it might be harder to teach them down the line, we might be way behind on the robot, but we can still be really competitive. We think it just may take a lot more time because they're trying to do it, we're trying to teach them. We think it just may take a lot more time because they're trying to do it, we're trying to teach them.
Speaker 2:So you, you prioritize teaching the students versus, rather than prioritizing winning and this in this instance.
Speaker 1:Yep, Yep. And I'm not saying that we are not like super competitive, like right Right. Like, I think not without, like bragging, I think, if we, I think we have the skills collectively to make a good robot.
Speaker 2:You or your friends, yeah, something that competes.
Speaker 1:Well, right, definitely not the. We're not saying we're the best robot, because some of the stuff at the highest level is crazy. I'll explain that in a second. It's different at the higher level too, in terms of competitiveness. But, yeah, I think we have the skills to have, um to like, reach the students goals if that makes sense, like. We always try to tell them. Like you know, if you want to do something, don't try to limit yourself on like what you've seen other teams do, like just because you've seen another team do something. Not successful doesn't mean it's not about, or doesn't mean it's impossible to do right, right, but you also have to be like you know, teach them some of the real world. Like, okay, realistic doesn't necessarily mean don't go with an idea. Realistic mayistic may mean how do you spend your? How are you going to spend your time? What are your goals when you're trying to prototype something like? Or when you, when you're having a meeting, like are you just like? If you don't log some of this information down, like, it may seem boring, right?
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to sit here testing out a wheel, um, acting upon like a game piece, if, if, like, if I'm trying to pick what wheel we want, there could be like 10 different wheels that we want and all our different shapes and sizes and stuff, and like what kind of rubber are on the wheel I'm being really specific here. But, like, if they're not logging all the information down, like what they see the next meeting, they could waste like 30 minutes trying to do the same thing they did the other meeting.
Speaker 1:So it's like stuff like that, right yeah trying to prioritize their time and, and you know know, what are you capable of? Right, like, how are you guys like your middle schoolers? Right so, like you probably have a lot more to learn than what we do sometimes. Right so, like you have to work together at that area too, like, if you want to aim high, that's, that's awesome, go for it.
Speaker 1:But like, we'll try to help you reach your goal as best as we can, but we're also not going to let you go down a path that's like hurtful, if we think it's going to be like hurtful or like not productive right then we'll say something right, because I think that's, I think that's.
Speaker 1:Uh, there's like that's hard too to balance right. Like sometimes you want to let them fail, but other times, like you, you want to step in and actually prevent that because you know it won't be like beneficial. You know that they'll be able to understand it like why it it's it's hurtful. If that kind of makes sense. Yeah, maybe, maybe I'm not explaining it this way, I like, but I, I really feel like it's just the balance a lot of the times. Um, that's really how you get, that's how that's how you learn and that's how you get better. Um, but yeah, I um at the.
Speaker 1:I think I mentioned something about like different competitive levels at like yeah, there's like a higher level yeah, so in michigan, um, the program is first robotics, um, and they have separate like um, like robot robotics programs, ish, um. So like the high school that we did, um, you build a bigger robot and it competes on like a bigger field, way bigger field, um, and uh, the um. So that's FRC, first robotics competition, and that's just high school. And in Michigan, um, and everywhere else, um, but in Michigan, um, they only allow the middle school team to compete with the FTC program, which is first tech challenge. That's like supposed to be middle school level, you know.
Speaker 1:Leads you into FRC. It's a smaller robot, smaller field, uh, like way smaller field, um, but it's still super competitive. Leads you into FRC. It's a smaller robot, smaller field, like way smaller field, but it's still super competitive. The unfortunate thing is every other state in the world, or every other state in the U S, and like every other country, it's a lot of high schoolers to compete. So they're going, they were going up against like high schoolers at Houston.
Speaker 2:So Michigan doesn't allow.
Speaker 1:Nope, and I don't know what the decision process was behind that like originally. But they can't change that right now. There's not like a good way to change that or limit it for all the other, like states and in countries, because there's like thousands and thousands of teams out there for ftc now. Um and uh, if, if they were to regulate like, oh, everyone has to, you have to be middle school to compete, they're going to lose more than half their teams. So, like they, they don't want to. I know they're not going to want to do that, but then you can't just say, oh yeah, michigan high schoolers can compete in Michigan, because you know, you have, you have, you have already said that, like, high schoolers can only compete for frc, so so there's not really a good way to do it, since they, since they made that decision, um, but that's, that's the uh I want to say downside, because there there are some pros to for them to compete at that level.
Speaker 1:But uh, like they can't drive, like they, these mills can't drive yet, like, like some of the teams we were, well, legally yeah right um some of them some of them bike to were going against, well, legally, yeah right, some of them bike to school, right, so maybe I guess they can sleep there, right. But some of these high school teams at the top level, or a lot of them, are right out of somebody's garage so they've been competing through FRC. They did Lego League, which is like first Lego League, which is preschool first league, which is, you know, um, like preschool first, through like fifth grade. Some of these top teams have been their kids on their team, have been competing since that level all the way up and through like senior year, high school Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, like they're not affiliated necessarily with a school all the time at this, these top teams, um, but they don't have a ton of like, um, it's not like a consistent thing forever.
Speaker 1:So, like a lot of these top teams, they, they are super successful and then they may just die out for a season, they may just be done because their kids graduate and then they move on to college. So, like, what we're trying to do for for the middle school team I'm in in in Zealand, is something that really hasn't really been done before and that's trying to make it sustainable. So, like, when we leave, like, cause we're not, I'm not, I don't want to be doing this forever. I don't think, maybe, maybe, maybe I'll be doing as long as I can. But like, if, if we take a step down for a couple of years and like somebody else, like we, somebody else steps up, then we want it to still be a like, a continual like. Okay, you are going to get this certain amount of money from these sponsors, as long as you keep up with the sponsors, right, yeah, like not a lot of teams.
Speaker 2:Who would you want to replace you? Would it be the student, the former students, as the mentors?
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, I mean. We mean I went to Cityside for middle school so I know that place, I've been around it. It feels weird going back now stepping foot in that school every time All my other friends went to Creekside, so the other middle school.
Speaker 2:Is Cityside like Zealand's middle school Yep. Is that one closer to the city and Creekside, like Zealand's?
Speaker 1:middle school Yep. Is that one closer to the city and Creekside?
Speaker 2:is yeah, Creekside is actually like right downtown Zealand, yeah, right, and then Creekside is like.
Speaker 1:Creekside is like less than three, four minutes away.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought it was going to be like out in the farmland.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's like right down the road, so it's kind of funny.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:Cityside used to be the high school, so that's where both my parents went to high school, or at least my mom went there.
Speaker 2:My dad went to Holland, christian. So you guys just have been Dutch as long as you've been alive. I know, can't you?
Speaker 1:tell dude Come on. No, yeah, yeah, pretty much. I'm like the most, one of the most dutch korean people you ever meet in your life. Noted, besides the height, I mean yeah, yeah, don't you got lacking you guys got me on the height, but I mean you're. You're not even dutch, but I mean you're still tall.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like all my, all my friends are I'm the most non-dutch dutch looking person because I have the blonde hair and blue eyes, but I'm that is fair, I have almost no dutch. Yeah, yeah, that's funny. So you do robotics and you're a mentor?
Speaker 1:yep, I can talk about that I can talk your ear off forever about that stuff.
Speaker 2:Oh I know, but you also are doing the worship directing, which is a couple leadership positions. Is there a future Pastor Brandon coming?
Speaker 1:I don't think so.
Speaker 2:That means it's going to happen. Every time you say you don't want to do something or it's not going to happen, that's the one it is yeah, yeah, um, it's not on the radar right now. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like it's hard to say, like I don't know the future, like I try really hard to to take some time and and and pray about stuff. Like that may sound a bit weird to say, but like I don't know. Sometimes I just like I have no idea, like I feel like if I'm not not just as a Christian, but like if I'm not constantly trying to you know, talk, to talk to God about some of that stuff, then like I'm doing it, I'm doing it by myself ew it's really hard for me to take time and like talk to God about it.
Speaker 1:Cause sometimes I sometimes it's, I feel like I have to do it with myself, or I feel like it's easy, right, it's what's the good word? Like it feels like it's, it's, it's fine, right, it's fine if I do it myself and like I think somebody told me, like I don't remember who told me this. It was pretty good advice. It was like, whether or not, whether or not they meant it to be advice or not, they're like, you're going to make a decision at the end of the day, by yourself, regardless, even if it's not something that you talk to God about, or even if it's not something that God gives you for a short answer on, you still have to make decisions sometimes, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He's still going to be there with you and that was pretty helpful. It was just good to keep in mind.
Speaker 2:That isn't. I'm pretty helpful, it was just good to keep in mind. Um, that doesn't not trying to like advocate for like doing it by yourself, but right now I know what you're saying.
Speaker 2:I, because we've had, we've actually said this a couple times on this podcast, but I think sometimes you do have options, when so it's like you choose something and it's like you like you said, god's still there, unless it's something that you obviously shouldn't be doing, but that we all know that yeah, yeah, I mean, it's something that you obviously shouldn't be doing, but that we all know that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean it's even for that stuff, like sometimes it's still like it's. It's easy, really easy, to get caught up in something and then, like months go by like a year goes by and you're like oh like and and maybe still like.
Speaker 1:Even in those moments it's like I mean so. So maybe I'll get a little personal here. This is kind of neat. My, my dad I didn't know this about him until he told me like a couple a couple years ago, um he like grew up in zealand, holland, all his life and um, he was really big into computers. And he, he does, uh, he's a programmer. Um, uh, now, so he, he started getting into it like right when programming was starting to become big, like they just started offering classes, like back in his day.
Speaker 1:I say that like he's like a thousand years old. Sorry, dad, but he told me that he just kind of just up and left, like when he graduated high school. He was just, he didn't want to have anything to do with like the church or like his family, and not that he didn't love his family, right, like he just wanted to do his own thing and I didn't know that about him. And he, he moved to. I think he moved to colorado, because that was like that was the big where all the programmers were at the time. Um and uh, his plan was to try to go to school in colorado and get a, get a job there and and and like as a programmer. And uh, he found out very quickly that that wasn't his path, like all throughout college. So he went to, he went to GVSU for for a couple of years, um and went, um and took like GVSU was here a thousand years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so he went, he went here for college. Um, I should say, I mean, I think I am, except he went here for college. Um, he was, he was going to try to move to Colorado to get a job. Sorry, yeah, um and uh, like, right at the end of like, right before he, he, he left one of his.
Speaker 1:He told me one of his professors just sat down and talked to them and you're just like, like, what do you want to do with your life? And he never actually thought about it, he just was like, I know I like computers, but I've never actually thought about what I wanted to do specifically. So he just decided that he was going to do his own thing. He said he was a Christian, but he said he didn't actively try to pray about some of that stuff and he just wasn't able to find anything out there. And then he had to come back home and he pray about some of that stuff and he just wasn't able to find anything out there. And then he had to come back home and, and you know, like, he had great parents that still loved him, Right, like, and that's super important, but, um, like, he's one of the most like.
Speaker 1:I'm fortunate enough to say that I like he's something that I, someone that I look up to, um in that sense. But he like really tries to stress the importance of spending intentional time out of your day doing that stuff. You don't have to have a specific goal in mind. You don't have to feel like you're going to gain so much wisdom or you're going to gain so much biblical knowledge all the time. Just read stuff or just pray. You don't have to pray a certain way either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it doesn't have to be a big deal and I know very little about any theology stuff and part of my I know right.
Speaker 2:But you're.
Speaker 1:Reformed. I know right, but I felt like that was a huge downside to me personally when I was applying to different churches, Not even in that sense If I wanted to step into worship leading or just worship in general somebody who leads a group of people in right.
Speaker 1:And in worship, like sometimes I felt underqualified to even like do that and uh, um, I mean, I mean there's been a, there's been a lot of things that have helped me think about that stuff and like to, to get me to a point where I am like okay with that, I like that's fine, like I'm not gonna just say that's it, like I'm not gonna. You know, I'll always try to be, you know, gaining knowledge or like wisdom. Where I can't, people like that are, you know, pastors or like, or like spend their whole life, you know, devoted to this, like teaching stuff, right, right, um, but like the the cool thing is about like worship, leading, even, like with anything involved with the church, like whether it's volunteer, whether you work there. I think that, like, because, um, I'm trying to quote, like trying to quote the book that I that I got this from a little bit, um, I read a book called the worship pastor by by Zach Hicks.
Speaker 1:Uh, it was recommended to me by um uh, Jeff, um, at first, and we kind of went through this book together, uh, while I was interning there and he, he um, the guy who wrote the book has like been around a bunch of different churches and like big and small yeah and, uh, he had like the same question at the end of the book and it was a great way he wrapped it up.
Speaker 1:He was like we're all broken right, but we've all, like some of us are called to try out this, like worship pastor thing or like worship director thing, and I maybe that sounds, maybe it sounds a little bit cheesy, but it's like that was a great way of putting it because at the end of the day like I know it's you just have to spend as much time as you can like, even though it's sometimes it's sometimes it's overwhelming.
Speaker 1:Like part of the job is like getting to experience some of that stuff, like as a, as a worship somebody who's in worship. Like there's just a lot of things that I hear like throughout throughout the week. It's like people come in with some people come in with like you know, this is what's going on in my life, whether or not they like mean to share it with you. Um, like that's what you see in a, in a church setting. Um, and it's really made me think of how different people are coming in to to the church like every Sunday morning, because I mean, a lot of them don't have worship pastor jobs. Some of them may just sit in an office all day or like deal with people.
Speaker 1:So it's like I forget sometimes that that like people go through that stuff If that makes sense. It's like all my buddies like they have very similar jobs but like you know they're might not have, they might not know what to do in their free time sometimes. Right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It's like, how can I try to minister, even though I'm not um, like worshiping at robotics, even like this sounds cheesy, right, but like, how can I minister to the kids still there? Um, and to my friend group? Um, like outside of outside of the church, like that's one area I can do that in, or like, if I'm volunteering in another church, like I can do the same thing, um, like even at home right. Um, it's, it's a constant challenge and, uh, it's it's. I enjoy it, but it's definitely it can be hard.
Speaker 2:What can be hard? Just keeping up.
Speaker 1:Just keeping up with.
Speaker 2:With other people's lives. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That and trying to be intentional, like as intentional as I can with whatever time I have, because they're every day almost I would say they're every day like right before I go to bed. This is like I don't want to do anything else. I was gonna go to sleep. Like I know I didn't, like I know I didn't spend any time praying today. I know I didn't do any of that, but like I don't really feel like it and even if it's like 30 seconds to say a prayer, like 30 seconds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's long when you're tired and you're ready to go to bed.
Speaker 1:And it's like sometimes I like I can, I'm just sitting there doing absolutely nothing, right. Yeah, I can, I can do that, I can physically do that and I still can. I can do that, I can physically do that, and I still decide not to do that sometimes. And it's like you know, strive to get better, right, and I just hope to be able to to have Jesus on my mind consistently that much.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like that's, that is a real goal that I have, um, because I feel like it's there's every single time where, like it's related to the, the job, like where I've felt challenged, like every single time um, I'm able to like just keep him, like you know, above all the other like stresses like you know it does help, it does um, and even if, even if he doesn't give you an answer directly, like he's still there, right, right, and like sometimes he um shows you, like down the line too, like my, my dad said that he's never like.
Speaker 1:You know some people. You hear some people say like oh, god spoke to me. God dad said this to me. Like I heard a voice, cool, like that's awesome.
Speaker 1:But like my dad, dad and I, like we've never heard a voice, right I have any there yeah, and my dad said, like one time he, um, there was like a in in internal, like job posting at his work. Now, um and uh, this was a couple years ago and he was thinking about applying for it. So he, uh, he prayed and uh, he, you know, is this? I think he said, like, is this like the right thing for me to do? Like I'm going to have to spend some more time away from home to like get trained for this? Like, just give me a sign. And he was expecting like something audible. Like you know, maybe he wasn't expecting it, but, like you know, he, it would be nice, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And didn't hear anything, anything like. He just kept praying and after a week he decided to apply for it and they actually uh, they actually terminated the position.
Speaker 1:So, like they, they just made it something else and or they weren't that position wasn't gonna be a thing, pretty much yeah and so he was like, okay, I mean, that would have been, that would have been fun to do, uh, because it was more of it was just different than what he was doing. Yeah, and um, um, on the way home, uh, he said that. Uh, he passed like six or seven billboards and they all had the word no on them and like in the back of his mind he's like, okay, I can think like, yeah, that's just coincidence, right, coincidence right. But like maybe in some wacky way, like that was his way of telling no, right, I, I enjoy hearing like some stuff like that from him, because it's like I don't know how god works, because I'm not god it's. I like to think that, oh, like I can see god working through that in that way. Who am I to even like think that, right, like he works in ways that I can't even imagine? Right, and it's the same. This is maybe, maybe this is not.
Speaker 2:I can't even imagine right, and that's the same this is maybe.
Speaker 1:Maybe this is not a good way to say it like it's the same for for like the devil right.
Speaker 2:Like he works in ways that I can't like, right yeah, it's both ways like well it, because it does say that he comes with disguises, an angel of light. So it is, they can right. I don't want to say it the wrong thing either, but they can work similarly yeah, yeah, words are fun, right.
Speaker 1:It's like like in your head. You can, you like, understand what you're in your head, but you like can't put it to words. It's like what?
Speaker 2:that doesn't even make sense yeah, well, because I don't want to say that god and the devil are on the same level yeah, which is not what I'm saying, but yep yep, the ways that they work it sometimes can both be confusing, yeah I enjoy hearing stuff like that from him.
Speaker 1:He's always like he's not like telling me, like challenging me necessarily. He just like tells me that stuff, like when we're just talking randomly and like I take that, that, like that impacts me a lot, it's like it just sticks with me. You know, it's uh, like he said one time he was just reading the bible and and and um, he I was shoot. It was um, oh yeah, it was, it was moses, like part of the red sea right, and he just reread that, just because, and um, he asked me to think about. He's like just out of the blue, just random conversation. He's like you know you're involved with, like you, you listen a lot of worship songs and like you're about he's like just out of the blue, just random conversation. He's like you know you're involved with, like you, you listen to a lot of worship songs and like you're very musical.
Speaker 1:He's like, do you ever really believe? Like when, if there's lyrics in a song that say like um, like it refers to, like the, the earth is like gods Right, so, gods right, so, so the water is like living, like the air is is like breathing right, like he's like, what do you think about that kind of stuff and I was like like I didn't really put much thought into honestly and he's like, well, he's like the reason why I asked is I'm just like just was reading, like moses, part of the red sea, and he's like like it talks about, like in the bible, like the, or when david was like singing and praising God, like some of his lyrics and they were like the water even like fears him, like when Jesus told the water to be still he's like the water, like listen to him, so like can you take that as like the water listens, like it's alive, right?
Speaker 1:So he is just a random question that he had for me.
Speaker 2:And what was your answer?
Speaker 1:water alive I said, I said sure, I said sure it's water could be alive. Maybe I can't understand it, but sure well, it's like does it?
Speaker 2:no, it doesn't breathe. I don't think it breathes I was gonna say, technically, you could make an argument that it does eat, because it does, you know, like a bunch of like stuff.
Speaker 1:People can smile it up in water all the time yeah, oh, you're going down that route yeah, well, yeah, yeah, I am me trying to get scientific even though I know nothing really. Caleb's like oh yeah, well, people drown, so like water eats people well, I said a case could be made.
Speaker 2:That's funny, but it doesn't breathe.
Speaker 1:So that's funny though well, great, we were due for an awkward silence yeah, yeah, we just ponder what we talked about no dog barking, so no dog barking, that's true.
Speaker 2:So that was a long, long answer to you're probably not going to be a pastor anytime soon absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I ramble so many times, just get off topic.
Speaker 2:But that's what makes you Brandon right, it's like dude.
Speaker 1:just answer the stinking question yes or no Like. Do you think you're going to be pastor? Not right now. No, not at this point.
Speaker 2:Well, the long answer is make for good. Uh, well, the long answers make for good. Podcasting it gets into the in-depth questions.
Speaker 1:That's what's so it's always funny, you look back and you're like, well, this was actually the question I asked you and we ended on does Bigfoot exist?
Speaker 2:That is a good question. Do you think Bigfoot exists?
Speaker 1:I don't think so.
Speaker 2:I think that it's something demonic if it does exist, Maybe yeah.
Speaker 1:Because that's the whole argument of aliens too. I've heard that. I think, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:Because who is it? Is it Ezekiel who sees the big wheel with all the eyes in the sky, or whatever? I can't remember if that's whatever angel it was supposed to be yeah, and people have equated that to I just picked my nose on camera or scratched my nose, oops yeah, you're gonna edit that in. You're just yeah, like people have equated the, the angel with all the eyes, like the wheel, as like a ufo oh that's fair so I don't know.
Speaker 1:There's been arguments made that, uh, aliens and stuff is like the spiritual making itself being able to be seen yeah, I mean, I think nowadays like people have a harder time, I would say, yeah, I, especially with like all the technology going around like it's, I think it's easier to pretend that that stuff doesn't exist, like the spiritual side of things isn't real yeah you want to be able to physically see this stuff, but like kind of goes back to like I've never heard a voice of god or like the voice of god, like speaking to me, right right, it doesn't mean he's not real right, but like I used to think that that's the only way I can know for sure is if he actually talks to me and says something to me and he's like nope, like I'm gonna make decision right, but but he might not show me that's those things until like later, like down the line yeah
Speaker 1:um, yeah, maybe.
Speaker 2:I mean, maybe bigfoot is also just some random creature out there that only lives in like a remote area where all these rumors stem from yeah, that's like we've never found actually some like some random dude, just super tall genetic, some weird genetics is like all hair, you know it'd be funny if all these years there's like a family that just ran around in those costumes, just never got caught.
Speaker 1:You imagine if you've stumbled across a cabin in like middle of alaska, like wherever the story is done from the middle of alaska, and you walk in and it's like deserted, but you see like furry, like bigfoot costumes on the wall, like I don't know what. I would think of that. This is like what the heck I mean each one has like a year, decade. Yeah, when it was like, like made number one on and like, like news lines like 2004. That's funny all right.
Speaker 2:Well, brand Brandon, thanks for coming on absolutely it was great to hear all of your adventures adventures and uh, all the things that you're doing. So I'm yet a yet another person living their life yet another person living their life trying to do God's work well, sounds like you are doing God's work, so I appreciate it. Thanks again and everybody listening. Have a blessed week. And if the dog,