Unhinged Christian
Welcome to Unhinged Christian Podcast, where we dive deep into the stories and perspectives that challenge conventional religious thought. Join me, Caleb Parker, your host and fellow seeker, as we embark on a journey to explore spirituality, faith, and humanity from a refreshingly open-minded perspective.
In each episode, I sit down with guests from diverse backgrounds and walks of life. From artists to activists, scientists to philosophers, we engage in candid conversations that transcend the boundaries of traditional Christian discourse. Together, we unravel the complexities of belief, doubt, and the human experience in the context of modern society.
Whether you identify as a devout believer, a skeptic, or something in between, Unhinged Christian offers a space for exploration and discovery. No topic is off-limits as we challenge assumptions, confront taboos, and embrace the richness of our shared humanity.
Join us as we navigate the intersections of faith, doubt, and everything in between. Tune in to Unhinged Christian and open your mind to a new dimension of spiritual inquiry.
Unhinged Christian
028: A Journey Through Faith, Politics, and Personal Expression in Today's World. With Lawrence Williams
We navigate the nuanced and often complex dynamics of respect and submission in relationships, underscoring the importance of earning respect and the voluntary nature of submission. Our journey continues into the spiritual and emotional roles within marriages, moving toward a reflective critique of the phenomenon of "cussing preachers" and its impact on the sanctity of sacred spaces within faith communities.
The conversation takes an interesting turn as we contrast the cultural norms surrounding dress codes for weddings and church services. Personal anecdotes highlight our debate on whether conforming to these norms affects spiritual missions, and we share some laughs over the appropriateness of different types of suits and attire in worship settings. Ultimately, we agree that personal expression through clothing is welcome, as long as it respects the gathering's purpose and doesn't cause distraction.
Lastly, we delve into the intricate intersection of Christianity and politics, shedding light on Halloween traditions and their joys before tackling the responsibilities of Christian voters. We contemplate the ethical dimensions of immigration policies, pray for elections, and the contrasting foreign policies of the U.S. and China in Africa. To wrap it all up, we engage in a spirited debate on universal healthcare, examining its implications for personal choice and capitalism, and the broader reach of government control. This episode is packed with thought-provoking discussions and a dash of humor, ensuring you stay engaged from start to finish!
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At some point I wasn't even recording, I just started recording. There you go. Glad that I figured it out, but at some point in that show Stephen Crowder voiced the brain Really, yes, Isn't that crazy.
Speaker 2:It is crazy. What's crazy is that I even know who Stephen Crowder is.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's that crazy.
Speaker 2:That should surprise you, isn't he like the ultra conservative?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's where I think you would know who he is.
Speaker 2:I don't, I don't exist in that I know.
Speaker 1:But he's one of the most annoying ones I, I have her.
Speaker 2:I well, now that you say that I found out about him because there were some prominent conservatives who were talking about him in a very bad way, yeah, because like there's something that happened with his wife. I didn't know what happened, but they were not calling him. They were calling him everything but a child of God. So I figured it had to be something he said or did.
Speaker 1:I don't know the whole story, but on the video they're in a fight and he's just like saying you need to respect me. But it's like the second you ask someone or tell someone they need to respect you, they have every right to not respect you period because there's something you don't have to ask for. Right, it's just something that people give because you uh not require it. What's the word? You maybe? Deserve it yeah, deserve it or let's start there.
Speaker 2:if you do things that are respectable, yes, exactly then you will easily get respected, or at least you should get respected, by your spouse. So I would take it if your spouse is already disrespecting you, if it's gotten to that point. But what do I know? I'm just newly married, that's right, you're married, newly married.
Speaker 1:Four weeks to lawrence, four weeks, two days or something like that but I also think part of it was he was talking about the whole like submission thing and oh which I have my opinions on why I've submitted to husbands. It's not something that you force them to do. I think it's something that women naturally do when there's a man worthy of submission.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about it. I want to park right here because I think this is great. Oh, no, no, I don't want to be controversial. I love this part. I love this part let's talk about it because I feel like what is controversial has been men going into marriage or looking for a spouse with that in mind. Women should submit and they need to do what I want them to do when, in all actuality, it's not the case.
Speaker 1:I don't think that's what submission means, though. No, that's what submission means, though. No, I think it's like she may look to him as the leader, but that's not going to happen unless he is worthy of that position.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Where he's mentally, spiritually, physically strong and fit.
Speaker 2:Submission by definition, even if we look at just the example that Jesus showed of what submission is. Submission is willful.
Speaker 1:Right, like we submit to Christ. We're not forced to do it. No.
Speaker 2:Ain't nobody forcing you to do anything. Submission is willful. So the idea that there's a man you can't force someone to submit, it's either they choose to do that or that's not submission. Correct, that's just coercion, yes. So I think, yeah, if he's on the bin that his wife won't submit, well, I don't think the problem is her.
Speaker 1:He's probably not portraying good. And good and in that video it was not very good emotions coming out, it was he wasn't like emotionally stable. It didn't seem like in that particular video some people say it's taken out of context. I don't know if it is I'm. What I'm saying is what I saw. It's like that's not somebody who's acting in an emotionally stable way.
Speaker 2:So maybe he needs the Lord and therapy.
Speaker 1:Well, he does Cause a lot of Christians like him, but he swears and oh yes, he looks unkempt.
Speaker 2:There is a proliferation of custom preachers online. Yes, there is. Don't look it up on YouTube, though, because you know algorithms will kick in and then send you down a wormhole, like I've already been. But I mean, if that's what you want to do, go ahead, but I'm telling you what's going to happen afterwards. And there are some cussing preachers. I mean they saying everything, and I ain't talking about just like in a house and doing a podcast or something. I'm talking about. These are preachers at the sacred desk, like in the pulpit, who are cussing and preaching at the same time, and people are just hallelujah, that's right, pastor.
Speaker 1:They're into it, you mean.
Speaker 2:They're very into it.
Speaker 1:I wonder, why that is.
Speaker 2:Some people just like to hear. Other people keep it real.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I've heard that too. Pastors are like oh, I like this particular person because he swears sometimes. So it just lets me know he's real and it's just like I feel like that shouldn't make somebody real.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no. It shouldn't make somebody real at all. There's decorum. There are things that you do in certain places that you wouldn't do in other places. Not that I'm saying that Christians should be cold switching everywhere that they go, but I think there's a way that you you walk into a sacred space yeah that we just and I think we talked about that sometime before when we hung out that nothing is sacred anymore.
Speaker 2:Nothing is sacred anymore. And so there's these spaces that we once had, that we considered sacred. They're not being taken as seriously anymore and it's bringing just a bad light to the faith. I feel like it's casting Jesus in a bad light. It's just not good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what do you think about? Somebody online said we dress better for our wedding day than we do when entering the house of the Lord, because that's true. Right, I'm saying I feel like that's not a good thing.
Speaker 2:That is not a good thing, but it's the absolute truth. And at some churches now I ain't going to call no names, nah, but don't worry for the folks looking. It ain't no church that I have been to, but there are some churches I know, some worship leaders, because you only go to perfect churches, right?
Speaker 1:That's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, that's true, it's definitely not true. But I can say in my personal experience, I've never been asked, you know, when leading worship, I've never been asked, you know, when leading worship, I've never been asked to dress or not dress a certain kind of way. Um. So you know, everywhere that I've been, they've been cool with jeans. They've been cool. My my typical swag is is that blazer with jeans? I like that blazer jeans. Gym shoes, um, or tennis shoes, as some of y'all like to call it, um, but no, they're, they're. I know worship leaders who are at some mega churches. Right, they do some big things and they're dressed cold as jeans. It's just like no, you, you can't even come up in here with your three-piece suit on. You can't even have your blazer on because it doesn't fit the audience, it doesn't fit where the majority of our congregation is is coming from, and I'm like, since when did we start trying to fit the culture instead of trying to impact the culture?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for real.
Speaker 2:It's true.
Speaker 1:Like. We're trying to like win the world almost Exactly, or not. I mean, you want to win the world. We're trying to be more like the world to win that To win them, which I don't understand.
Speaker 2:That makes absolutely no sense. It's just like, you know, if I'm blue and you red, it's like I'm just going to pour myself into you in order to make you blue. Well, I get more red. So we're not helping each other. We're not helping each other. If I become broke, so I can experience and help you, stop being broke, we go be, we go both be broke, right? So so, uh, yeah, I, I think, instead of trying to make an impact where you know we're trying to fit in, and it's so true and it's sad, it's really sad Well, I, it's so true and it's sad, it's really sad.
Speaker 1:Well, I've been thinking about getting a three-piece suit for church.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, go get one.
Speaker 1:Well, I want a tweed like the windowpane tweed. No, I have to stop you somewhere. No, you don't have to stop me.
Speaker 2:I must stop you. There has to be a line drawn. This is probably why some of them I take it back Half the things I said. This is probably why some of them churches say you can't come in with your three-piece suit, because some people just take it too far.
Speaker 1:You think a tweed suit is too far.
Speaker 2:I feel like if you came in in a three-piece suit and it was bedazzled and you got rhinestones all over it.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's not. It's not. That's not what tweed means.
Speaker 2:I feel like this is a slippery slope.
Speaker 1:You allow the tweed and the next thing you know, people are going to be dressed in gold and diamonds, I suppose, but they're so nice I feel like the vest on a tweed suit would look really nice.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm mostly excited about, okay, but I support you If that's how you want to get connected with the Lord and his people at church, as long as you're going.
Speaker 1:I support you Thank you.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. You're very welcome. All I can do is pray.
Speaker 1:Well then, I guess I'll go with a Nord's basic suit then.
Speaker 2:And now you don't have to be basic.
Speaker 1:I just don't like the gray or black. I wouldn't do that, I wouldn't do blue.
Speaker 2:No, it's given funeral if you do that. But no, you don't have to do that, you class it up. Come in nice, little something, something Sure. They got a whole lot of different colors down at the men's warehouse. Talk to them about it, or your local Tocito dealer, whoever that is.
Speaker 1:It's probably men's warehouse or that one that you told me about.
Speaker 2:I forget their name, and I shouldn't forget their name, because they were really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're really good.
Speaker 2:They had some very great options and I'm still thinking about going in there and buy that blazer that I wore for the wedding reception. The bedazzled it was bedazzled.
Speaker 1:You see what I'm saying, but see I had the I wouldn't really think anything of it if you came into church with that oh no, not at all.
Speaker 2:That's what I was gonna do. I was gonna wear that blazer for church, but if I came in with the matching pants too much, it's the spirit of too much, and I cast it out whatever yeah, it would be the spirit of too much. I can't deal with it. You can have the blazer. You saw me. I had the blazer, but my pants were black maybe I'll do that then yeah, see, that is acceptable, because then you're not too much.
Speaker 2:especially if I'm on stage, if I'm on the platform, to have both that tricked out blazer and the matching pants. It's like no, you can't come back no more, you can't leave worship for us no more, because you too much.
Speaker 1:Well, that sounds like a legalistic rule that you've implemented. I have.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's all me. Lawrence elation's 319.
Speaker 1:Read it yeah, we were due for an awkward silence. We needed that's true.
Speaker 2:We didn't need an awkward silence. We don't have those enough no, um.
Speaker 1:So now that we're past the the suit debate, okay, let's move on to a little bit of politics and how Before we get there.
Speaker 2:Yes, I must. I must say this because the seasons are changing. By the way, welcome to fall. It's a little warmer here in Michigan, so temperatures are working with us right now for the fall temps. But I must say this, now that we are in the midst of a transition when we are in the midst of a seasonal transition, people like to do things a lot sooner, and that's just not God's timing. So what I'm saying is if you picked up a pumpkin, you need to take it back. No, pumpkins can be bought until October 1st. If you want to decorate your house, nothing for Thanksgiving can be bought until October 1st. If you want to decorate your house, nothing for Thanksgiving can be bought until November 1st, and nothing for Christmas can be said or bought or thought of until December 1st.
Speaker 1:Well, you better not listen to Star.
Speaker 2:Who is that?
Speaker 1:Star 1057. They start Christmas music the day after Halloween, and that is unacceptable.
Speaker 2:So that's why I'm trying to tell y'all and warn the people that God is not pleased, Because this is too much Y'all doing too much. You're blending the holidays together I don't know whether Thanksgiving, the Halloween or Christmas, but y'all doing it all together. I just don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1:Well, here's a question Is God even happy about Halloween? To begin with, probably not.
Speaker 2:And he would be equally disrespected by this foolishness y'all doing. That's all I'm saying you cannot have. Listen. They had the Easter candy. I'm sorry. Yes, they had the Easter candy out and the Valentine's Day candy January 1st.
Speaker 1:Why Wouldn't it go bad? That's what I said. I said how much junk is we putting in?
Speaker 2:our food, that it can last until March. I just don't understand. But they had it out January 1st. I said Christmas ain't even done yet. I said I didn't even take down my tree. I take down my tree January 2nd.
Speaker 1:I didn't even get a chance to take my lights off, yet I take my tree January 2nd I didn't even get a chance to take my lights off yet. I take my tree down the Christmas Eve of the next year, and then I put my new one up.
Speaker 2:You shouldn't do that. K, I'm just kidding, I'm about to say because there are some people who do do that and God is not pleased.
Speaker 1:Yes, who even knows if he's pleased with the Christmas tree to begin with, he's probably not Because of all the. It's like some. What is it Like? The celebration of the tree? There's something. I'm sure there's some spiritual background with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the pagan holiday, the fact that Jesus wasn't born on December 25th, but we can't talk about that, otherwise we're going to get canceled.
Speaker 1:Canceled.
Speaker 2:Yeah, canceled. They still cancel a lot of people Because we know the history of Christmas. Yes, and Christmas is a multi-billion dollar holiday. I might want to sell something this year on Christmas, so I can't be out here telling people that Jesus wasn't born on December 25th and there's no biblical evidence to support that.
Speaker 1:People already know that. I think it's more the the fact that it's based off a pagan holiday, not jesus being born, but christmas. Right with the christmas trees and right the lights, yes, but the same with jack-o'-lanterns those jack-o'-lanterns are meant to keep evil spirits away.
Speaker 2:Not the evil spirits. We don't want them.
Speaker 1:Which sounds good on paper, but as soon as we put our trust in anybody other than Jesus, we're in trouble.
Speaker 2:You're in trouble. But yeah, don't tell too many people that, Otherwise we don't want to get canceled. We don't want no mysterious heart attacks or insurance lapses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for me for sure, I don't want one. You're right, I don't want a mysterious heart attack.
Speaker 2:So, as far as I'm concerned, christmas is a good holiday. We ought to celebrate it. And there you go.
Speaker 1:But I do like the. I hate using the word vibe, but it's the only word I can think of. I like the vibe of Halloween.
Speaker 2:Why do you hate using the word vibe? But it's the only word I can think of, Like the vibe of Hollywood. Why you hate using the word vibe? Let's talk about it. This is a therapy session.
Speaker 1:Because it's cringy Vibe, yeah like, oh, that's such a vibe.
Speaker 2:When you say vibe, then that's cringy. You're supposed to leave some of them letters off. Vibe, that's better. See you, vibe, that's better. So you're getting better already. I told you, you learn really good you learn really good.
Speaker 1:You're getting better already. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, I don't know what the thing is.
Speaker 2:I like the word vibe anyway.
Speaker 1:Okay, yes, go ahead, I'm sorry, I like the vibe of halloween, not like it's necessarily scary, but just like the fall and the apple orchards.
Speaker 2:I do love me a good apple orchard.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the corn maze.
Speaker 1:Corn maze. Ethan and I actually worked at a corn maze last year, did you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, did y'all ever get lost in the maze, or did y'all have a map? Cause y'all be cheating. We worked at it, that's what I'm saying. And the workers be always be cheating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we worked at it, that's what I'm saying and the workers always be cheating. Yeah, we probably cheated, exactly. Well, we were just like positioned because it was one of those scary ones. You weren't allowed to dress as anything too scary because it was still like family oriented.
Speaker 2:Okay, which I don't understand how that works.
Speaker 1:How, what works.
Speaker 2:If it's scary, it's scary.
Speaker 1:And if I'm bringing my family to something that's supposed to be horrific or scary or Halloween thing, well, there's not. Like if you've ever been to the haunt which I don't really go to the haunted houses anymore- I've never been to a haunted house. Really.
Speaker 2:Mm-mm.
Speaker 1:I went once to the haunt and then once to the forest of fear. But when you go to those it's like they're just like depictions of horrific stuff I see. But in this corn maze it's like you're just dressed up as something and then you like jump out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're just scaring them, but it's not. They don't see images and things. Right, okay, so it's not like a true crime mystery up in there, correct? Okay, yep, I get it now. Yeah, I don't think I could. I'll do well in the haunted house One, because when I'm scared I'm fighting. So I mean, there's just no. Hey, I believe in Jesus and I also believe in laying hands, and that's exactly what I'll be doing in the haunted house I'm just fighting.
Speaker 1:What about turning the other cheek?
Speaker 2:I only got two, so you be doing in a hundred hours I'm just fighting, what about turn the other cheek? I only got two, so you got two chances. Only got two, you got two chances, so I'm gonna let you have that one, but the next one, hey, it's over gotcha. I'm sure that's what the theologians discovered I'm sure it is yes, okay, but politics, politics, yes, so how should we're kind of this, like last year with the guys?
Speaker 1:but this is more like in depth, like how should christians go about politics? Is it our, is it our, our Christian duty to vote? What is it? What are we supposed to do?
Speaker 2:I'm going to get in a whole lot of trouble with evangelicals here, but I do not think there is a Christian duty to vote. I know, I don't think there's a Christian duty to vote. There is a civic duty. One could obviously argue, but I don't think even for and I'm not picking on nobody, no side. I'm just saying if we argue for civic duty, then we have to put weight on the argument that, let's say, election Day should be a holiday or that you should have the right to vote, and there are some people who would disagree that not everyone should have the right to vote and that Election Day should be a holiday.
Speaker 2:So that's, that's my little soapbox moment there, but I do not believe that there is a Christian duty to vote. I do believe, however, that it's okay and you should most certainly hold your Christian values and your beliefs in mind when you cast your vote. If you choose to cast the vote, but if you choose to not vote, it's fine with me. Um, I don't. I don't think god will be sending you to hell for not voting in the election and I don't think he'll be sending you to heaven, because you did vote in the election.
Speaker 1:Right, but how do we this is a good one how do we reconcile who we vote for as a Christian? Because I'm somebody who doesn't believe that either party is Christian and, technically, if you vote for either one of them, you're voting for some type of sin to be implemented into our society.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the whole thing. That's why I say with your faith, biblically, you can't reconcile it. All of us can find biblical things for each political party, biblical things for each political party and all of us confine anti-biblical things for each political party, yeah, um. So if you know they're going to be, um, there are plenty of preachers who are holding the elected office, for instance, that are democrats, right? Senator rafael work not, who is a preacher who is a reverend, by the way. I heard him preach. That boy can preach is it good?
Speaker 1:oh man, is it sound?
Speaker 2:he good, he good. Now he's a black preacher. Okay, he's a black preacher. He, he's actually pretty and I had never heard him give a sermon.
Speaker 2:But I heard him him give a sermon. He was talking about walking on water. And I heard him. It had nothing to do with politics, he was just giving a sermon. He was teaching the Bible. It was a good sermon, that's all I'm saying. He could preach.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, so he's a Democrat, right, and there would be plenty of evangelicals or conservative Christians who we usually identify as evangelicals who would say well, that's a sin. Why is he a Democrat and also a preacher? Right, he would never go to his church. And then, right on the flip side, there are some conservatives who are also pastors. You know former pastors who work in the ministry and things of that sort.
Speaker 2:So you've got people who are active in government who hold the same faith, at least in theory. They believe in Jesus Christ, they preach Jesus Christ on Sunday, and then they go to their respective legislative offices and vote the way that they vote, right. So how do you reconcile that you can't, because you can't serve they vote Right. So how do you reconcile that you can't? Because you can't serve two masters Right. So either one of them has to be right and the other wrong, or this is a no brainer. This is nothing to talk about. So yeah, in that respect and I'll say over and over again I feel like I'm repeating myself because I am you can't reconcile it with your faith.
Speaker 1:You can't reconcile it with your faith.
Speaker 2:You can reconcile it with your civic duty. You can reconcile it with your pocketbook. You can vote based on a particular issue that you like. But you know to a lot of evangelicals, their one issue is abortion.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And a lot of liberal political activists that want to issue health care. How do you reconcile that right? You know, I, I can't. I can't say that, um, we should not be allowing refugees into the country wait, what say that again? I can't say that we should not be allowing refugees into the country.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Because that's not what my Bible tells me to do. Jesus was a refugee, so how can I be against refugees coming into the country? At the same time, I can't say you should be able to go out and kill somebody and get a one strike instead of getting a death sentence or getting life in prison.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Who's voting for that Right? That's what I'm saying. You can go any place in America and there will be some sort of law or some set of laws that are anti-biblical, that are not according to your faith, that are not according to your religion, and whoever you are voting for, whether they are Democrat or Republican, there's something in their political agenda that does not vibe with your theology.
Speaker 1:That does not vibe with your theology.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you can say I'm voting for this person because I like their economic policies, or I like their policies on healthcare, or I like their policies on climate change, whether I believe it exists or not, but you can't say I'm voting for this person because the Lord told me to vote for this person that I agree with Also side note, I want to talk to theologians about this. Is it cheating if you pray to win an election? I've always wondered this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2:I feel like it would be cheating.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because if God answered your prayer, then that means we didn't vote for you, but the Lord.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess there'd have to be either more conservatives praying or more Democrats praying. Maybe that's how it works.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if a Democrat wins, then that's because it was more liberals praying than Democrats. Okay, I see how it works. So I guess, hey, y'all got to get together in this next election and figure out what the number's looking like. Right, oh man? But no, I don't think there's a Christian duty to vote.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as far as the refugee argument goes, I agree the Bible does tell us. I forgot what verse it was, but it's like be kind, some translations. Like be kind. Some translations say you kind to the alien, which means immigrant.
Speaker 1:But where I'm coming from, because obviously I lean more conservative when it comes to immigration is I like I just want to make sure everybody's vetted before they come yeah and be going to become um, actually I can't really say like be a productive member of society, when we have so many people here who are American citizens and are not productive members of society. I can't make that argument anymore, but to make sure that they're a safe person. I think is an okay thing to do.
Speaker 2:Uh, before I get to whatever, my argument is what is a safe person?
Speaker 1:well, like somebody, if okay, so I. Obviously this is gonna sound bad. I'm saying mexico, but I don't. I'm not saying every mexican is this way, but the cartel does run mexico for the most part right. So if somebody from the cartel was coming into America from the border, it would be nice to know that they're here, not the cartel. Yes, and they are in the United States?
Speaker 2:Yes, Because we do have ways to track people who are coming into the United States, Although I will give you that the Customs and Border Protection does estimate that millions of people have come into the United States undetected. But we don't know that right. That's neither here nor there. It's like saying it may be water in that. Well, it's like you know it could be full of water, it could be completely empty. So you can't go off what you don't know.
Speaker 2:But from what we do know and what we have been able to count right, we know that those people are here in the United States. We know their names. They come to the border, they ask for asylum or they ask for refugee status. 1980s law, as well as many international conventions, means that the United States must honor that request for asylum. Now what we could do, of course, is send them in front of a judge, which is what the process is. They go in front of a judge, they try to explain to the judge and justify their claims for asylum. Then that judge decides whether or not that's valid or not, and they either get admitted to the United States of America or they get immediately deported and expatriated back to wherever country that they came from. Now our problem is it takes so long to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And by law, if you come to the board and you ask for asylum, we can't just send you back, right, we have to bring you in. So I guess what I'm saying is in that regard, it would have been nice, at least on the policy front, because the political conversation is just up the wazoo and then there's so many partisan back and forth and I stopped loving partisan politics years ago and I've become more just infatuated with the policy, the actual policy. And I've become more just infatuated with the policy, the actual policy. If let's say that the most recent border bill or proposal would have passed, it would have added more judges to the bench, which would have helped speed up the process for those folks who are coming in at the border, claim an asylum to see a judge and have their case heard. And I guess I don't know why I would be against that, because I agree with you, right, you should be vetted, right? Unfortunately, we can't vet natural born citizens, right? Who are the folks who are going into schools and shooting them up?
Speaker 1:Right. I know I've heard that argument too, but it's like if we have a problem here and there's a problem here, we can at least lower one other problem.
Speaker 2:We should do something about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I get you, I get you and that's, I think, the, the, the, the liberal dilemma. I don't know what the political science term, uh, is for that. Uh, my political scientists have to help me with that. But there is a liberal dilemma in that.
Speaker 2:You know, liberals tend to have many problems that they focus on and they think, if you focus on any other problem, you're not focused on my problem, so you don't care about me and my problem or things that I'm going through, so I'm not voting for you. Right, Conservatives tend to have ton of vision. Right, you can give them a problem, you can give them a fear, you can give conservatives an issue and they stick to that issue, which is why conservatism is really successful in elections, because liberals tend to. We have this problem and that problem and that problem, that problem which one do we solve? Where conservatives are like look, we got two problems, okay, now I want to do something about them two problems. And because they all the problems that exist, and then, boom, right, it's an easier argument.
Speaker 2:Um, that said, that said, I think it would have been great to see that border bill pass that was proposed. It would be great for Congress to do something about the border, but we've been talking about this forever and neither party is doing it. I mean, I don't care who you vote for this year, it's doing it. I mean, I don't care who you're voting for this year. These are the same people who have been in charge and have had the power to do something about the immigration I even hate to say immigration problem, because at this point it's not a problem, it's just immigration.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because if it was a problem, then somebody would have been trying to solve it, and as far as I'm concerned, this is a hoopla, do you think?
Speaker 1:that they purposely don't solve it just because it keeps bringing in more money 100%.
Speaker 2:If you let the problem persist, then you have something to run on in the next election. You can't just get elected and start solving problems that you said was a problem when you was running. Why would people vote for you again? At least I feel like that's the thinking it seems to be. So it's like let me just talk about the problem, but I'm not going to actually do anything to fix it. And when I can't do anything to fix it, I'm just going to blame the other party or the opposing candidate for my failures.
Speaker 1:And it works.
Speaker 2:And it works because, you know, every four years or every two years for the House, we go back and we vote against the person who we felt like did not address our problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, what do we, I mean, what do we have to do to get these issues solved? Then is my question.
Speaker 2:I am usually a very optimistic person and you know that about me. I usually see the glass half full. I think politics is probably the one area where I'm becoming more and more pessimistic. Really want to have these policy discussions, civilized policy discussions, and come up with some reasonable and civilized solutions. It's not that those people don't exist, it's that those people right now are silenced. The loudest voices in the room are the most fringe voices in the room. They're the most extreme voices in the room.
Speaker 2:They're the most extreme voices in the room yeah, so the people who actually want to solve the problem. We can't really do anything to solve the problem because you know we've got primaries and, at the end of the day, you know it's not the people who show up to the general election that determine what our politics looks like four years from now. It's the people who show up in primaries who determine what our politics looks like four years from now. It's the people who show up in primaries who determine what our, who are what our politics looks like four years from now. And those people who show up in the primaries, they are diehard, they they are further to the left or they are further to the right. And so then our options for the general election seems to be two extremes.
Speaker 2:That's true, and it's where did you guys come from? I thought we were having a nice conversation, and they just come in from the two extremes and they just blow everything up. But, as my uncle just always say, it wouldn't happen if nobody was making money from it. Think about it. Well, yeah, I agree with that. I mean from it, think about it.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't think about it every day, but it wouldn't happen if nobody was making any money. Okay, if the so-called invasion and I hate that word invasion at the southern border, if that was not making folks money, they would have stopped that long time ago. You can't tell me we can fight two wars at the southern border. If that was not making folks money, they would have stopped that long time ago. You can't tell me we can fight two wars at the same time and not do something about the border in our own country. Come on, it don't make no sense. Somebody's making money. Now, good luck figuring out who. Right, it's the deep state, the deep state. I know it ain't me, ain't nobody send me my check yet, so I don't know. If y'all lost me, if y'all forgot, put me back on the check, the payroll, because I need my check, but yeah. But to your point, though, to the point earlier, um, I think all of us can agree that, right, we want people, um, uh, to go through a process in order to enter the United States of America, because that makes us feel safe. And I think my point is that process already exists. We have 15 different intelligence agencies that vet every single name of a person who comes into the country. We've got Customs and Border Protections. We need more officers on the ground, we need more boots on the ground, but we have the money there in order to invest in technology. We could have got more money through that solutions bill which I thought it was but we already have that process in place. The point is it is taking too long, it is being drug out and it's leaving millions of people who have come to the United States to claim asylum in limbo All the while. By the way, when they're here and they are caught and then released into the United States, they get the ability to work. You take away their ability to work and you wouldn't be making people money Right, and I guarantee you immigration solved. They too. Congress will wake up tomorrow and they get it done.
Speaker 2:Both parties, both sides of the aisle. At the end of the day, they're here, people who have come into the country and do not have authorization to be here. They be here. They're here, they're working. They're paying taxes because this is the United States of America. We go tax you wherever you are.
Speaker 2:Your problem is life, death and taxes in the United States. So they're paying taxes. They don't receive anything from the government because they're not American citizens, they can't vote, so they don't have a vote in the or voice in the political process, which I think all of us, most of us, would agree with. Um, we just have to make it more efficient. We have to make that process more efficient so that way we can deal with what seems like an issue more humanely. And then, secondly, and I think importantly, we have to acknowledge and deal with and I know we don't want to be the world's police, but we have to acknowledge and help deal with the issues on the ground. These people would not be coming to the United States seeking asylum if there wasn't an issue in their homeland.
Speaker 1:So you think that we, as America, should go to other countries and offer support?
Speaker 2:I do not think that we should do that, because I think our idea of offering support has failed, and I think we are the reason why a lot of these countries are in the mess that they're in in the first place. Yeah, that said, I do think that we as Americans at least our civic duty, at least to ourselves, is to say listen, instead of the problem being here right, instead of you having to flee your home and seek asylum here. What can we do there? What's going on there? Why are we okay with the cartels coming in and taking over? We shouldn't be. Why are we okay with you living in dire poverty wherever you are? That shouldn't be okay. Why aren't we helping you and giving you the tools and resources that you need to invest in yourself? Now, that is at least what China has done to the continent of Africa. The US came in and said we only go trade with you if you honor human rights.
Speaker 1:They said that to who? China?
Speaker 2:The continent of Africa. Okay, the US say we only go trade with you when you honor human rights. And of course they didn't honor human rights, so we didn't do much trade.
Speaker 1:Africa didn't honor human rights.
Speaker 2:Many countries in Africa. Africa is a continent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know that, yes, but many countries in Africa continue to violate human rights, continue to defy the norms of democracy or democratic societies. So the united states said, okay, we're not gonna trade with you. And china said, screw that, we will. And, matter of fact, we'll trade with you, ignoring your violations of human rights. We'll trade with you and we'll teach you how to do this for yourself. And so, over the next decade or so, we're going to have over 500 million people on the continent of Africa living a part of the middle class. Let that sink in, not from American investment, but from Chinese investment.
Speaker 1:People from China are moving to the continent of Africa. No.
Speaker 2:China is going in there and they're saying let's partner, let's trade, yeah, let's have our economies, do some business together to grow your economy. And what they have done is won over the soft and the hard power I guess the soft power all over the continent of Africa, which the United States failed to do for 50 years of our diplomacy. So I guess my point is, if we took that approach as Americans and just said we're not going to ignore your human rights violations and we also want to help you train your people, we also want to help you invest in your own markets. Basically, we want to help you train your people. We also want to help you invest in your own markets. Basically, we want to teach you how to fish. We're not here to give you fish.
Speaker 2:Okay, that was Jesus. Now Jesus gave out all the fish and the lowest of breed Now ain't, no more. That was Jesus. But we are here to teach you how to fish. If we would go in with the same approach, I think it would be a lot better, so that way people don't have to flee and come to the united states instead of starting wars.
Speaker 2:Exactly exactly what I thought yeah, we're not gonna blow you up with this money. We want to invest in your market. I'm going to teach our people how to fish. We want to invest in in science and technology in your country and the thing is in the united states, especially for students who are undocumented. Right, they learn here, and then what do we do? We deport them. And what world does it make sense to educate a person in your country and then send them away?
Speaker 1:Send them back to where they originally came from.
Speaker 2:That makes no sense. I mean, if anything, you'll be trying to keep them here. You'll be trying to get them to reinvest their knowledge, their expertise, their skills, their ambition. You'll be trying to get them to reinvest that back into the country. But why deport them? It makes no sense. But if we could get together and have a civilized conversation around policy and get people who really want to solve the problem, I do think that we can. But I'm pessimistic because I don't think that we're going to see that, at least no time soon.
Speaker 1:That is very pessimistic. I think that as long as people like you and I have conversations because obviously we have our disagreements and fall on different political sides and people start seeing it more and more- I have hope, I, I and the thing is, I even reject the, the idea that there's some sort of disagreements, because I mean even us.
Speaker 2:I think I feel like nine times out of ten we actually agree yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:At least with the end result. We agree with the end result. We're all looking. We're both looking to the same thing. We're both going after the same goal. How we get there, of course we have differences of opinion on, but it is easier and it is more profitable for partisans and political parties to magnify the 10% where we disagree, get us to be uncivilized and hate the other person for disagreeing on the 10% of things we disagree on, and then view you as the enemy and then the candidate that I'm voting for as the savior yeah it's disgusting now I know what is meant by money is the root of all kinds of evil.
Speaker 2:100 listen, it wouldn't happen if ain't nobody making money. Yeah, and, and that is so true even with our uh, our partisan divide, right it. We would not be so deeply divided among partisan lines if there weren't people who are making money. It ain't us, it ain't us I'm and I by us I mean the vast majority of people in America. I don't care how you vote. The reason why we keep fighting over what's on the agenda is because we're not on the agenda. Yeah, and I think the sooner we realize that, then the sooner we can really have a conversation that's civilized and the sooner we can really have a conversation that's civilized. And I'm not saying that you got to be changing your vote on political party, because I don't think that it really matters. And there was a time where that didn't matter with certain things. Right when Nixon got into his stuff Republicans, they wanted him out of office, and there were some Democrats who were rooting for the removal of Bill Clinton when he got into his. Although I guess we can say yeah.
Speaker 1:I know your wife is different than you know.
Speaker 2:but then all the stuff Nixon did, but you know, it's the same thing. You know, there there was a time where wrong was wrong and right was right, and no matter what your political um decision was or your political persuasion was, at the end of the day there were certain things you just couldn't say as a candidate yeah without losing support from everybody.
Speaker 2:Um, and I don't feel like we're living in that time now. I feel like you just say enough to appeal to your base, and then your base will believe you, and then nothing is true.
Speaker 1:The end Election day. So do you think that with, like you said, they're never going to solve the immigration policy, all that? Do you think that it's the same with health care, that they're never really going to solve it just because it creates that divide and makes them more money?
Speaker 2:Yeah, obviously, there's definitely a special interest in health care. Right that want that. I do think that the one main difference as it relates in health care, right, um, that, that want that. I do think that the the one main difference, um, as it relates to health care, um is just the desire of most of us as americans and I am one of them um, that really like our private health insurance. Yeah, we really like it. It's provided for my job. I like my private health insurance. Yeah, um, would I like to pay for it?
Speaker 1:probably not nope, I don't.
Speaker 2:I do not like paying for it and it's like I am all good, um, I love it the whole time. And then I look at my check and then when I see that they took out such and such X amount of dollars to go to my health care plan, I'm like why y'all do that? Because I didn't go to the doctors in the last two weeks, so I don't know why I need it, right. So, you know, we don't like, we don't like paying for it, but I don't think that there are many Americans who would be willing to give up their private health insurance. And I feel like, eventually, that's what the conversation leads to.
Speaker 2:You know, first it's a regulation of the marketplace, which, by the way, obamacare is, is not a national health care plan, but it is a regulation of the marketplace. It is a regulation of the marketplace. But there is an argument, right? First there's a regulation of the marketplace, then there is a public or nationalized health care, as we see in some other countries around the world, and most Americans Democrat, republican, liberal, conservative we don't want to see that here in our country. But again, it's the fringe right. It's that small minority of people who are very vocal, who are very loud, who would like to see that.
Speaker 1:Like the universal health care.
Speaker 2:Universal health care yeah. There's definitely a loud chorus of people who would love to see that happen. Do I think it will happen? No Two, should it happen, I would be alone the size to argue. No, I don't think it should happen that's very unliberal of you it's very unliberal. But here's why mostly because, while capitalism has its faults, I love capitalism. I do, I love having the choice. And if we start saying let's take away choices in healthcare, what's next?
Speaker 1:Right, that's where the problem lies.
Speaker 2:People don't think about that at all. What's next? Because I can name a whole lot of other things that I really don't like paying for, like groceries, yeah. So it's like you know, okay, there's a farm bill. Every year, we give billions of dollars to farmers. Why do I still have to pay for milk and for eggs then? Right, think about it. If we already gave them our tax dollars, then why we still got to pay, I don't understand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then they can regulate what we eat, couldn't they? If that was the case, if, that was the case.
Speaker 2:If that was the case, and ain't nobody getting any skinnier in America, so whose fault is it that we're gaining all this weight? Personally, I think it's the individuals. It can't be. If we're going to have the government control it, shouldn't it be the government's fault if the government subsidizes the farmers? Sure.
Speaker 2:You see, what I'm saying, all I'm saying is all important, I'd have to say it's a slippery slope that'll leave all of us confused when we start doing this. And I'm not saying that we have the perfect system of capitalism. We do not right. Nobody does, nobody does, and there also is no perfect system of socialism. So if you want to point to some country, oh, look at this, at this socialist, look at Venezuela that is not a perfect socialist system, and neither is China's system a perfect communist system or I'm sorry, socialist system, while it is maybe a perfect communist system, so you don't have that in anywhere right now.
Speaker 2:There are some social elements of the United States of America, but am I ready to go that far on health care? Yet? Don't look for me in the next election, because the Democrats won't vote for me as a nominee, with me saying no, I'm not looking forward to national public health care. I would agree, though, that it's a shame. It's immoral, both as an American and as a believer, that people are having to choose between paying for their medicine and paying for their light bill.
Speaker 1:Paying for their medicine and paying for what else, and paying for the light bill Light bill Light bill Like electricity. Electricity.
Speaker 2:You should not be in fear. I don't know if you know this, but the cost of seeing a doctor or going to a hospital to have a baby.
Speaker 2:Going to get a checkup is expensive. Going to get a checkup is expensive. Going to get a checkup is expensive. I think that's ridiculous. So I am in no way saying that I am okay and I'm perfectly peachy king with the system as it is right now, because there are a lot of things that are just expensive and they really shouldn't be. The fact that the federal government is just now getting the authority to negotiate drug prices in a capitalistic system.
Speaker 1:That is mind-boggling. Couldn't that be seen a little bit as government overreach though? The ability Because once they you said they're regulating.
Speaker 2:Negotiating drug prices're regulating negotiating.
Speaker 1:Negotiating drug prices yeah, isn't that also a slippery slope though?
Speaker 2:how so?
Speaker 1:if they're negotiating drug prices, then negotiating turns into controlling drug prices and then it's definitely control.
Speaker 2:My mentor used to say I'm gonna be quoting people all night tonight, at least it looks like. But my mentor used to say Lawrence, never forget the golden rule. I said love the Lord, your God, love your neighbor. He said the golden rule is that the one who has all the gold makes all the rules. Let that sink in. So if the federal government is paying billions of dollars for prescription drugs of which, by the way, we subsidize through taxes for research and development. But if the federal government is paying billions of dollars for prescription drugs.
Speaker 2:Like us, why shouldn't the federal government get the option to shop around? Yeah, option to shop around, yeah, yeah. So when I go to the store and I'm looking for a product that I don't really need, but I just kind of want, what do we do? We don't go to the store, we go to amazon because we want to look for the lowest price, for the cheapest junk, to just make us feel good, and and so we scroll through amazon and then we choose that at its lowest price, right. Why shouldn't the federal government be doing that with our tax dollars? Because right now, the current, under the current system, the pharmaceutical companies can say the drug costs this amount of money. Well, the government has to pay that amount of money.
Speaker 1:The government has to pay. Who that amount of?
Speaker 2:money, the pharmaceutical company, so not us as Americans. The pharmacy can say this drug is going to cost you 50 bucks this year. Well, the federal government got to pay that. Next year they can say it's going to cost 150 bucks. The federal government got to pay that. Why not say it costs $1,000? The federal government has to pay it.
Speaker 1:The federal government pays for drugs. The federal government pays for drugs. That's what we're talking about.
Speaker 2:Caleb, where you been.
Speaker 1:I know, but I always have paid for my own Right.
Speaker 2:Because you are not on Medicaid or Medicare, you're not on a government health system. Somebody who's on a government health system when they get their pills.
Speaker 1:It's the government paying for that.
Speaker 2:It subsidizes exactly so now full circle, circle.
Speaker 1:You're saying the government is negotiating drug prices and that exactly. Okay, there you go exactly when you started off with saying the federal government wants to negotiate drug prices, and then now, we got here. Now it makes sense as to why they're negotiating.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, because they're paying, because they have to pay for they have to pay for the people who are on Medicare.
Speaker 1:Medicaid and government health services I didn't know that. I did know that, but I don't really think about it. Right Because obviously, if it's government health care, obviously the government has to pay for it.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right, but most people don't. It's okay. But, yeah, if you're on any of those systems, um, um, then the government foots that bill, just like our insurance company would. For instance, if we were to go pick up drugs, of our doctor prescribed drugs, we would go in and pay the copay. Well, our insurance would pick up the rest of that bill. That's what the federal government is, uh, to people who are on medicare, medicaid, and, yeah, the government foots bill. So, just like we do in our capitalistic society, why is it okay for the government, who are spending billions of dollars of our money each year, to also be able to negotiate and to shop around?
Speaker 1:You're saying it should be okay for them to shop around. It should be okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it should be okay and I think that makes a lot of people happy, except the pharmaceutical companies, because that was a check you could always depend on. Now there's no guarantee, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I am not on the, I'm not on Team Pharma, so I don't really care. Yeah, no one. I have no sympathy for them.
Speaker 2:But okay, I'm going to take the opposite side. Uh-oh, I have to. I'm going to take the opposite side for you because there is tons of really good research and development and folks who can do it. Capitalism in part because of this, because we can have people who can focus on a particular drug. That, I mean, may or may not work, but they can at least focus on a particular drug. They can then market that drug. They can get, then get people what they need, the healthcare that they need. There is a reason why the world comes to the United States for healthcare.
Speaker 1:Yes, I agree.
Speaker 2:There is a reason, and I think that's part of the reason right, and I think that's what makes our health care not only just successful but a lot better in many ways the fact that we have a capitalist system and where pharmacies can, or big pharma can, be big pharma and do their thing. Now the scary thing is going to be yeah, we want to take down big pharma, we want to take down a man, but what happens when we do?
Speaker 1:We just get a bunch of little pharmas.
Speaker 2:We get a bunch of little. So you know, if you get rid of big pharma, the drug that you're taking that's now FDA approved, does it really work for you?
Speaker 1:Yes, I hope so Always will.
Speaker 2:I pray. I pray to the Lord.
Speaker 1:Well, it's not that I think that we necessarily need to take down Big Pharma. It's just that a lot of their I think a lot of their drugs and prescriptions are the cause of other prescriptions. Oh yes, oh, yes, oh, absolutely so that's where I mean like and that is one of the downfalls of capitalism where it's like they can create something and then it's like well, I have this issue now.
Speaker 2:Well, we, have another pill for you. They can create reoccurring customers. Yes, like car manufacturers. Yep Right, they could definitely make those cars last a whole lot longer.
Speaker 1:Well, that's why you got to get a Toyota or Honda.
Speaker 2:Now you know I'm not buying a Toyota but I will buy a Honda. I love Honda. Hondas never break. I know Honda didn't get the button. Now all the other car companies they got the button. So when you call in you and you're going for the oil change and they say you reach like 110 000 miles, they hit a button somewhere and all of a sudden your car start breaking down. You got to get a new one. Too bad for you, I believe it. But they didn't get a button to honda. Honda ain't got that button. They don't use it. I know people who got hondas. They got 250, 300 000 miles on. It's Still going real good too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's still running good, yep.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:I feel like Toyota's up there too, but maybe they have a.
Speaker 2:I just don't like them, I'm sorry. I love capitalism, so let them sell their cars in our country, but I have not seen a Toyota that I think looks nice.
Speaker 1:Toyota Tacoma, those trucks, those look nice. That's about it. They really messed up with the Priuses back in the day.
Speaker 2:They did. Those were so ugly. They should have called Elon. Let him take it. Yeah, let him design it they should.
Speaker 1:He would have done better.
Speaker 2:I don't necessarily I think he would have done, but I think he would have designed a little bit better. I think they, of course they designed it with the now in mind. Uh, and context matters, right, it's a toyota, so you know. They're not sitting in atlanta looking at the latest and brightest in technology and american culture, right? So they're not right. They're not sitting in Atlanta looking at the latest and brightest in technology and American culture, right?
Speaker 1:So they're not Right.
Speaker 2:They're not doing that, but if they were, they would have redesigned the Toyota Prius a long time ago. But have you seen the new Prius? Toyota prius yes, it's nice. I give it to them on that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they stepped that game up. That one does look nice. I would buy one of those yes, I not.
Speaker 2:I heard that from a lot of people who was like tesla customers through and through. They said they saw that new toyota prius and it was like for the price and for the range, the gas mileage, gas mileage the whole nine yards. They're about that toyota prius, so I give them that. I saw one on the road the other day. It looked real slick. It had tinted windows on it. I've never seen a prius with tinted windows, had tinted windows on it, uh, and it had lights. I could see the lights up on the neon lights up on the inside. Maybe that's custom, though they probably don't sell, probably.
Speaker 2:But they are nice now yeah yeah, for me I'll just take that electric um beamer just electric yep, I take that and how much is that going to cost you? An arm and a leg and probably couldn't get to the other side of michigan in it. But that's not the point the the point is that I look nice driving an all-electric vehicle to and from work there you go yeah, that's all that matters that's all that matters how long does it take to charge those cars?
Speaker 1:I have no idea.
Speaker 2:You don't know my hybrid, my beamer hybrid, which is what you have now, which is what I have now, that thing thing take and it's only like I can only go 15 miles, only on battery. I know right, beamers don't make hybrids. They say they make hybrids but it's not really a hybrid, it's a gas powered vehicle with a big battery. But, yeah, it can only go 15 miles. That still takes four or five hours to charge from E to full. That is crazy, yeah, that's crazy. So I can only imagine if you got a 215-mile range and you use that whole battery up, you ain't just stopping at BP for some Skittles, some Arizona iced tea, and come back and your pump done. No, no, that ain't happening. You're gonna be there for a few hours yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:Um, you think they'd find a way to have the alternator charge it while you're driving, because I thought hybrids was like the battery kind of kicks on in different area times when it's like if you're going a little bit slower or city driving, or maybe it kicks in on the highway or something. That's what I thought hybrid was no, so that that yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, actually you're right. Hybrids just kick in at certain times, usually on the city, in the city. So if I'm just going up and down 28th, you know, at some point my car would just run on battery, but if I'm getting on the freeway it's gonna always run on gas. So because over a certain mph it goes, oh, it does so.
Speaker 1:Yours does do that, yep, only for a limited time though, because you only got 15 miles on the battery only got 15 miles on the battery.
Speaker 2:But the thing of course with the hybrid is once your battery is depleted, it just won't use the battery, just go to gas, right, so so you're saving 15 miles, I'm saving 15 miles.
Speaker 1:What does that thing even get for gas mileage, because it's kind of big.
Speaker 2:Don't ask me that it's a very nice car. We don't talk about financial things with a car like this. I call her Bianca the Beamer. She's beautiful, she is.
Speaker 1:Man, the doors, the way, the doors shut.
Speaker 2:It's just so beautiful, it's just that sound, it's like why does it feel so official up in here? I don't know, but I think the gas mileage is 17, 18. Lawrence, it's bad.
Speaker 2:You're a part of the climate problem I am a part of the climate problem and you use premium gas with all beamers you do. Yeah, everybody been hollering when they was talking about paying $5 a gallon. Now, luckily, when the gas was $ dollars a gallon, I was driving my honda and that thing that went forever. I man, I could go a week and a half, never stop at a gas station in that honda do you have to put premium in a bmw?
Speaker 2:you have to. I mean, unless you want to tear up your engine and then pay tens of thousands of dollars to replace it. That's which one? You want to tear up your engine and then pay tens of thousands of dollars to replace it?
Speaker 1:that's which one you want. Where do bmws come from england? Germany uh, so do volkswagens, but I don't have to put premium in mine well, sucks to be you.
Speaker 2:No, uh, my beamer is American. Made it's made out in South Carolina. Yes, it was indeed. And my last car. This is where my liberal side is coming in.
Speaker 1:My Honda that I had was made in Marysville, ohio, by union workers. Well, unions have now switched to the Republican Party.
Speaker 2:Not all of them the Teamsters did. That's a pretty big one.
Speaker 1:The Teamsters is a pretty big one Also, which, just because they switched, I'm not brainwashed. I still don't like them Because I did not like being part of the union when I went to UPS.
Speaker 2:Tell me about it.
Speaker 1:Do you know how annoying it was?
Speaker 2:I could be very annoying.
Speaker 1:At UPS. I get that they're to protect the worker. I understand the whole meaning behind them. But I was a loader at ups so I'd be loading semis with boxes and then when it would get really busy they would have to send somebody else and to help me. But sometimes I wouldn't have anybody else. But my supervisor was there. But oh, supervisor can't help because then he's taking our work away really like basically taking the management, yeah, so he'd be technically taking my job and so he wouldn't be able to.
Speaker 1:He couldn't come into the semi trailer with me and help me so he got to be lazy for a reason yeah legitimately sometimes he. Sometimes they would help.
Speaker 2:But because you always skirt the rules.
Speaker 1:You got to get things done right, but like just that, that idea is a little ridiculous to me.
Speaker 2:Is it that way in every case, though? I don't know oh, because I've never. I never worked. Well, I can't say that I've never worked in a manufacturing facility because I have, but I never done like the hard physical. I've never done any loading of boxes, sure. And because I didn't do that, I didn't have access to a union or I couldn't sign up for a union. Now, I'm sure we could have unionized, but we all know what happens, when that happens.
Speaker 2:We know what happens when that happens. But yeah, I didn't have the union, so I always wondered how it is for people. I will say this, though you got to get credit where credit is due. We only got eight-hour work days, 40-hour work weeks, thanks to unions. Yeah, there is some good that has, oh yeah oh yeah, uh, we we got wage increases in part thanks to unions. Um, so, yeah, there's some, there's some good deeds that union does, but I never hear all of the the ways that it negatively impacts yeah, there's.
Speaker 1:There's the good and the bad with everything. That's true. It seemed like a lot of the lazy people really liked being part of the union because you're basically you can't be fired when you're part of a union.
Speaker 2:Well, why not?
Speaker 1:because because you're under the protection of the union. I remember I, the big boss, was walking through ups I think he was like the head of that branch and he looked in my trailer because sometimes people would just throw the boxes. Okay, we all did it and I was throwing him. He's like hey, why are you throwing those boxes? And I was like because it's faster. And then I had to go into the office and have a sit down and talk with him. But I had a representative from the union come and sit with me.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:And, like under other circumstances at another place, I could have been fired.
Speaker 2:for that I'm about to say if you do that at my job, you're going to be fired.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and so I was able to talk back to like the biggest guy up and still keep my job.
Speaker 2:That's not very Christian-like.
Speaker 1:Well, I wasn't necessarily Christian-like during those times.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, I guess I have to give you the past.
Speaker 1:That was the lukewarm days.
Speaker 2:Got you, but you have repented. You'd have been saved and you're on fire for Jesus. Yes, okay.
Speaker 1:I will say that even during my lukewarm days, I was still given to the church. Amen. Which is just like so crazy because I'd be living in complete sin.
Speaker 2:It's not crazy at all.
Speaker 1:But I'd still make sure to give my 10%.
Speaker 2:That's not crazy, let's park it right here. I get on my soapbox and I become very passionate with talking about tithes and offering. And I know a lot of people in our generation they do not like the conversation tithes and because they think, oh the money, the church is just trying to take your money and blah, blah, blah. You know why?
Speaker 1:the pastor driving the beans driving a buick they have. They have a bit of a point there they do.
Speaker 2:They do now, if your pastor is crooked like, um, uh, bishop gucci, what's his name? Out of New York he faked a robbery. The people came in and robbed him while he was preaching. If you like, bishop Gucci, and you know you driving Rolls Royces and you coming in with three-piece suits in a church with six people in the middle of the ghetto, you stealing, I know you stealing. So, yeah, I think there is a point for that.
Speaker 2:But I just want to say paying tithes is not about the pastor, it is not about the church, it is not about the people in the church. Obviously you want to be. It is not about the people in the church. Obviously you want to be paying your tithes to somewhere that is taking that money and investing it back into your community. However that looks for you. I like paying tithes to churches that have job programs, that have outreach ministries, food pantries, stuff like that. But you do, you. But the tithes it's not about any of that. It's about your commitment, it's about your stewardship, it's about what you are doing for God, to God. It's about putting God first. So when I pay tithes, I don't say I hope they create a food pantry or I hope the pastor don't steal this money. I don't care what you do, to be honest with you, right, because you're giving, I'm giving. It ain't about you. I'm sorry to say that, but I can be selfish it's about my relationship with God. It's me telling God God, I'm putting you first in every step of my life and my money, and even with my money, you get first dibs.
Speaker 2:Now, some people pay 10%, some people like to pay 20. I want to get to a place where I can pay 50% tithes. I ain't lying to you. I would love to be in a place where 50% of income half half goes straight to ties, because the more you give out of your sacrifice, that is so just because you gave 20 and only gave 10, god ain't gonna bless you more. Right, it's about the level of sacrifice. I want to up my level of sacrifice, yeah. And then god is like okay, I it's not that I trust you. God is saying I trust you with that money which you are showing trustworthiness, but it's more so. God is saying I honor that, you honor me being first in your life. I honor that. You honor our relationship and our commitment to one another. Yeah, it's it's, it's all about your relationship with god. So yeah, same here. Even when I was a lukewarm christian, when I wasn't going to church, when I was living a very sinful life, I paid my tithes every single time I got paid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you still think you would have went to heaven during those times?
Speaker 2:Absolutely not, absolutely not. But the thing is, paying tithes is the one commandment where God mentions nothing about you being saved. You ain't got to be saved to pay tithes, and you don't have to be saved in order for God to honor your tithes.
Speaker 1:So you're going to be an evil person and he'll still honor it.
Speaker 2:Because that's what God does. God is principled. So if you are following the principle, you give, and I will give it back. Press down, shake it together, run it over. Well, men, give unto your bosom when you follow the principle. Now I'm not telling you to live a sinful life and then pay tithes, because you're wasting your time.
Speaker 1:It sounds like you are trying to tell me that.
Speaker 2:I feel like you're wasting your time If you're living a sinful life and you're still paying tithes. You're helping out a lot of people at that church, but you're wasting your time. I I refuse to be given to God's kingdom and I can't be a part of it Right.
Speaker 2:Because that's really what you're doing. Yeah, but yeah, it's not about that's not even a prerequisite to doing that. It's the principle, that's it. If you honor me with your first fruits, then I will give it back to you. I will honor you. I will cause the rest to multiply. I will honor you. I will cause the rest to multiply. I will make the rest work for you. I'll have men given to you. The money ain't going to drop down from the sky and a lot of times what I've learned in my walk with Christ and paying tithes is that it's not always money that I get.
Speaker 1:Right yeah.
Speaker 2:It's favor with God and with man. It's favor, it's trust, it's relationships. That opens up doors and provides opportunities. Good health let's talk about that. When I was out living how I wanted to live again, being a lukewarm Christian and still paying my tithes, there was a whole lot, lot of instances I should have gotten in a car accident. I should have had a transmitted disease. Whoa, let's talk about it since we go talk about it and be real.
Speaker 2:There was plenty of times where I put myself in harm's way right, yeah, I mean, I can second that with me and I'm not saying that God will protect you because you pay tithes, because that's not it either.
Speaker 2:But what I am saying is I can second that with me, and I'm not saying that God will protect you because you pay tithes, because that's not it either. But what I am saying is, when you pay tithes, you can depend on God to do things in your life that are just unexplainable, and a lot of times it ain't got nothing to do with money and it's something that money can't buy.
Speaker 1:It's true. I've also noticed that usually, like the more I give and this is I'm not saying like I'm getting money from him, but it just seems like I'm able to save- more yeah so he makes the rest of it stretch.
Speaker 2:You think I drive that beamer because I'm rich? Oh, I thought you were. No, no, no, I didn't hit the lotto, the lord. I told the lord now, if he let me hit that lotto, I'm gonna pay my time. I told him. I promised them. I said, lord, if you let me just hit that number, that that 800 million jackpot they had just the other week, I said, lord, if you just let me hit, I will pay my time, I'll put offering on there, I will give. So the person I'm giving to they won't have room enough to receive.
Speaker 2:And the Lord didn't let it work out that way. But he done blessed me in other areas. But I don't drive that that thing because I'm rich. I can only explain that it was through the favor of God that I have gotten to where I am today. That's all I can say. There hasn't been anything. I graduated high school, I went to college, I fought and I did what I needed to do. I tried my best to get the right job, to get the highest paying job, to have the highest salary, to do the right thing. I didn't do any of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And yet the scripture remains true. I have never seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed, begging for bread. So I don't. I'm not into the prosperity gospel thing, although I do got a couple of messages in my back pocket. But I do believe that when you honor God with your money, with your time, when you give God your heart, that every need that you have will be taken care of. I don't have all that I want, and if the stock market crash, I might have to cry. And if the stock market crash, I might have to cry. So if it crashed right now, today, I might have to cry, because that's a whole lot of money I'll be losing out on. But I tell you what I'll wake up tomorrow morning knowing that when I had absolutely nothing, when my account was $500 overdrawn and I didn't have enough money to pay my rent, I remember not only did my mama was able to send me some money, but this lady from church. I didn't know this lady. I didn't know this lady.
Speaker 2:I was leading worship there and she walked up to me and she said the Lord told me to give you this. I said Well, I, I hope he talking to you. Good, because I needed it was the exact amount that I needed to pay my rent that month. I would have been evicted if that that lady had no bad guy. And then when I needed money, uh, to pay my car note because I had lost my job, um, and I needed money to pay my car, I was broke, I needed money to pay my car note. This other guy walked to me, coming out of the store, shook my hand. He say I feel like some people are called and some people are chosen. He said I can tell you, chosen. I didn't know this man. He said I just want to give to you because I believe that if I give to you that God will give to me.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the wrong motive.
Speaker 2:That's the wrong motive.
Speaker 1:Behind him, but you're the one receiving right now.
Speaker 2:Capital One got paid that day. They had been calling for weeks trying to tell me when we go expect payment. They got paid that night because that man sold and I honestly believe that God probably blessed that man more than I can ever imagine. But yeah, there are just a lot of things in my life that I can say, and not just financial. I was healing in my own body, people around me who have gone through health crisis and health scares that have been healed just from the faithfulness of God, just from the prayers of the righteous. So even if I am broke, I'm okay. To be honest I was talking to my wife about this earlier Since probably 2011,. I have never this is a true story I have never worried about money. How many times have I been broke since 2011? A lot, a lot of times. I've been broke since 2011. But since 2011, I have never once worried about money. Because I preach, I sing God will provide all of your needs. How dare I go to sleep and not believe that? And he has definitely done that.
Speaker 2:When I didn't have a job and I wasn't making any money, I ate every day, every day. My sister worked at a hospital. She worked in the in. She worked in the food kitchen. I probably shouldn't be saying this, but she don't work there, no more, so it's okay. But I worked in the kitchen there and I was able to get me a plate every day. And guess what? Here's the awesomeness of God.
Speaker 2:I wish that I would have documented this, because there were some days I couldn't go up there to get anything to eat because our boss was was around you understand that and I couldn't get anything to eat. And every one of those days I was living in her house her house on her couch, not paying her rent. I was broke. Every one of those days I wasn't able to go. Somebody out of somewhere just so happened to stop by the house, dropped off food. You can call my sister right now and ask her. Every single day that summer somebody dropped off food when I wasn't able to go down there.
Speaker 2:The most recent time I had lost my job. I didn't have enough money to buy food and I was scared to tell people that I really didn't have enough money to buy food. And I remember doing that whole season. My roommate at the time you met him Yep, my roommate at the time just got this, I don't know imp. I don't know whether he was watching the Food Network channel or what, but he just wanted to cook every day. And do you know? That's what he did.
Speaker 1:And he cooked for you too.
Speaker 2:I said what's gotten into you? He said I don't know. I just wanted to try out this recipe. I just got all these ideas in my head that I want to do, and he made food every day. Was he a good cook, very good cook, very good, so good? I had lost my job. I was without a job for three months. Three months, no income coming in, no money to spend on food during the vid this was not doing the vid.
Speaker 2:This was not doing that evil awful time. This was before that, believe it or not. Oh, for three months straight I didn't have no money to spend on food. Three months straight he cooked every day. I gained 12 pounds in three months. How you do that with no job and no income?
Speaker 1:gain, weight because you're not gain weight that's easy to do if you're not working. I also. I shouldn't have been eating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, eating every day, that's my point I was eating every day. I should not have been eating. I was eating every day. I gained 12 pounds in three months.
Speaker 1:At any point did he ever tell you to get another job?
Speaker 2:What do you mean? Did my roommate tell me?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, but he knew I was looking. Yeah, no, but he knew I was looking. Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:He knew I was looking For another job. But the thing is Are you still looking for a job?
Speaker 2:The thing is, I never asked him hey, I'm hungry, I need something to eat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he just did it.
Speaker 2:He just did it. He said that he had the feeling that he just wanted to do it and so, all summer long, that's what he did he just cooked.
Speaker 1:Well, cooking for people is a really nice thing to do. Yes, it is. I was going to. I mean, like a better word is fulfilling. It's a fulfilling thing to do, it is.
Speaker 2:I personally love to cook for other people when people come over, but I didn't expect that from him.
Speaker 1:And you were a freeloader for three months. I was, I was a freeloader.
Speaker 2:I was praying, I was crying. Lord, give me a job, do something, because I cannot sit on this couch another day. Looking for a job became a full-time job.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It was crazy.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I ate every day.
Speaker 1:What kind of stuff did he cook Everything?
Speaker 2:Pot roast, pulled pork Ribs oh man, a brats we had. Sounds like you were unemployed during the summer, man, when I tell you, yes, I was unemployed during the summers, over the summer months, okay, and he grilled or baked every day, and all I did was help him set up the plates and stuff. All I did was hand him the barbecue sauce when he asked for it, so that's all I needed to do. But the point is, god will take care of you. Yeah, yeah, god will take care of you, and and and I. You really don't understand how deep that is. Until you don't have anything, until your only source is God. And that's sad, because sometimes we don't realize that our only source is God, until our only source is God.
Speaker 1:How do you think that we can recognize that, when life is going well, that God is our only source?
Speaker 2:To not get full of yourself, and for me, paying tithes is a part that God is our only source.
Speaker 1:To not get full of yourself.
Speaker 2:And for me, paying tithes is a part of that. Yeah, it's recognizing. Yes, faith without works is dead. I believe in putting in work and I do work, but just because you work doesn't mean that you are entitled to anything, and that is our American kind of thought. If I work, I deserve. You don't deserve good health because you got a job, that's true. You don't deserve to be eating steak and eggs every morning because you work. At the end of the day, when we get to a point where we think that we have everything that we have because we work, because of our own ability, god will show you exactly who's God. I fear the person, or more like, fear for them, for that person who is so confident in their own intelligence and ambition and ways and plans that they think that they only exist for their ambitions and their plans and their ways. Boy, when God wake you up, it's going to be a very rude awakening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it says. I just read it in Luke Jesus is talking about how, if you're it's also in Proverbs but he's also talking about how, if you're going to like the King's house, you want to sit away from him so that he brings you up, instead of sitting right next to him and you get humbled. Because if you, if you humble yourself, you'll be exalted. But if you exalt yourself, you will be humbled.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's exactly it. We don't stay humble with God of all people. We don't stay humble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's true, and I'm guilty of it. I'm guilty of it. There have been times in my life where God has had to humble me because I got so full of myself, I got so confident in my own intellect, I got so confident in my own ambition. I'm born and raised in Detroit. Hustle culture that's what we do, right, we go make a way, we go hustle, we go get it done. Okay, great. But if it's all up to you, then at what point do you need God? Right, and God will show you exactly how. Your hustle culture means absolutely nothing. That, at the end of the day, he's still in control and every knee go bow. It's only a matter of when, but it's never a matter of if Every knee's going go bow. It's only a matter of when, but it's never a matter of if Every knee's going to bow Right on, All right.
Speaker 1:Well, it's getting a little late you know, for us. We're old, it's 820.
Speaker 2:Oh, you know I'm old, it's my bedtime.
Speaker 1:Right. So thank you for coming on telling the stories, having the discussion, Of course.
Speaker 2:Good, as always, anytime.
Speaker 1:And everybody else. Thanks for listening and have a blessed week. Yes,