Unhinged Christian
Welcome to Unhinged Christian Podcast, where we dive deep into the stories and perspectives that challenge conventional religious thought. Join me, Caleb Parker, your host and fellow seeker, as we embark on a journey to explore spirituality, faith, and humanity from a refreshingly open-minded perspective.
In each episode, I sit down with guests from diverse backgrounds and walks of life. From artists to activists, scientists to philosophers, we engage in candid conversations that transcend the boundaries of traditional Christian discourse. Together, we unravel the complexities of belief, doubt, and the human experience in the context of modern society.
Whether you identify as a devout believer, a skeptic, or something in between, Unhinged Christian offers a space for exploration and discovery. No topic is off-limits as we challenge assumptions, confront taboos, and embrace the richness of our shared humanity.
Join us as we navigate the intersections of faith, doubt, and everything in between. Tune in to Unhinged Christian and open your mind to a new dimension of spiritual inquiry.
Unhinged Christian
020: Wrestling In The Wilderness: A Journey Through Conservation, Conviction, and Community. With Lawrence Williams
Could you handle the unexpected adversaries of a wilderness trek or navigate the tumultuous terrain of political debate? Join me and our insightful guest, Lawrence, for a robust exchange on the poignant intersection of faith and politics, the practical and metaphorical paths of hiking, and the ethics wrapped up in wealth and giving. Together, we unravel the contradictions and commonalities that bind us, all the while keeping things light with a few laughs about the simpler struggles—like the quest for the perfect hiking boots and the ever-present bug spray forgetfulness.
Embark on an exploration of environmental responsibility and the delicate balance between individual choice and government policy. We openly question the polarization within American society and ponder whether our political convictions align with our environmental consciousness. The discourse extends into how these beliefs infiltrate our everyday decisions, from the cars we drive to the products we consume, and how we can support our communities in making more environmentally sustainable choices.
This episode culminates in a heart-to-heart on living authentically within one's faith, as we contemplate the true power of God and the transformative journey of seeking closeness with Him. With humorous anecdotes and serious reflections, we dissect the implications of preaching salvation while striving to practice what we preach. And yes, we even touch upon the curious case of whistleblowing and the personal integrity it demands. Tune in for a heartfelt, thought-provoking episode that is as diverse in topics as it is deep in insight.
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Good, yep, I can hear Sweet. I know I don't think it was your first time ever, but how was this time hiking for you?
Speaker 2:Actually it was my first time hiking walking through the woods.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wasn't really hiking, but it was close, it was close.
Speaker 2:I felt like I need new shoes so I need some hiking boots, so I need to work on that and that's about it. As soon as I get those hiking boots and then I get me a nice bag, I'm still a little iffy up on the bag honestly. I know that we said rucking.
Speaker 2:I'm going to try to do that. And then I bought a bag, got a weight to put in the bag, um, but I really like the bag and it's very nice and I'm scared the weight is going to tear the bag apart and then it was amazon that looked kind of cheap it's very nice, though.
Speaker 2:It's very nice. It's a solid black color. I I think it's very nice and I just I want to keep it, but not for what it was meant to be for, and that is, you know, to be tossed around to be oh, you want to keep it nice exactly yeah, exactly we'll just get another one.
Speaker 2:I should. I should have just bought two and then use one for rucking and then use the other for every day. But that's also my problem. I'm always doing that buying two, keep one nice and then use the other for junk, and then it's like, instead of spending thirty dollars, I spent $30. I spent 60 bucks. So, dude, yeah, got to fix that. Yeah, that's why I only bought one. I am fixing it. That's the. That's exactly why I only bought one. I think I did a good job. It was a good purchase.
Speaker 1:Does that one have something that you can put weights in it?
Speaker 2:It's meant to have weights in it, that's the thing, the thing I in full disclosure, I was not looking at that at all. I saw the bag. I was like this is very, very nice. Um, and this is after like 30 minutes of looking through the local amazon for a good bag. Yeah, I saw that bag. It's very, very nice, and so I just ordered it. Now, I did not check on whether or not those are meant to have weights in it, but I did buy a weight. It's a 30-pounder, it's flat, it looks almost like a book and so I just put it in the back like it's a book.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's definitely not how the manufacturer intended it to be used.
Speaker 1:But Uh-oh Still looks nice. It does look nice, yep, I should get one.
Speaker 2:You should, yes, and then they got the little, the Velcro sticky pack. It's like they call it a tactical backpack. I don't think I'll ever see you know any US military people wearing it.
Speaker 1:The US military are not going to be running around with $30 backpacks.
Speaker 2:No, I get the feeling theirs probably cost a lot more than that. Yeah, but yeah, they call it a tactical backpack. It's all right, I think it's nice. I think it's nice, I feel like I could use it. It can make me look like I once served in the military and that's what's important exactly that you looked like, right when I look in the mirror I want to say, oh, he's a manly man and so that's great there you go, because without the backpack I can't say that you are no, no, no, one can not even me.
Speaker 2:I question myself with other backpacks sometimes, so that's why I thought it was very important to get. So. Now that I have it, no one can question anymore I'm a manly man. And now the boots. The boots, next the boots. The boots are next. Um, I'm a little worried about that, because there's nothing that jordan makes, nike, air Jordan makes, that are really hiking boots. Right, you want to be fresh?
Speaker 1:Right, it's not going to happen.
Speaker 2:You know me long enough to know I can be just a little bit of a brand whore they call them sometimes.
Speaker 1:Do you think that you could put take the Jordan logo off of a shoe?
Speaker 2:and send it into the boot company.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no hey, I need you to stitch this on my boot, absolutely not. You don't think we?
Speaker 2:talked about this last week. Actually, there are just nothing. Nothing in our world right now is sacred, and that's the problem, because it's people like you who feel like you could just strip a Nike Air Jordan shoe of its emblem. Well, what if you?
Speaker 1:bought two pairs no One that still looks nice and then one that has the emblem missing.
Speaker 2:Okay, go out there and strip a Mercedes Benz of its emblem and then put it on a Toyota Camry.
Speaker 1:Do you know how funny it would be if I put that on my car, though People would be like what is he driving around in?
Speaker 2:Hilarious, and they would know that you don't care about nothing. Nothing is sacred to you. You'll kidnap small children if you could.
Speaker 1:Replacing emblem and stealing children. Same thing, one and the same to me, same kind of people do. Well then, what are you going to do about your boots then?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know. I did see a pair of boots, I think it's. What is it? Wranglers that are nice, so maybe I'll go for those, but I'll find some. I'll just go to Dunham's, I'm sure they got some there.
Speaker 1:And then the last thing is, we definitely need to bring bug spray next time.
Speaker 2:Bring what.
Speaker 1:Bug spray.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I am definitely rethinking the whole short, short sleeve, no bug spray thing. And then, you know, I had to have body spray, which I feel like attracted them even more. To me. Is that a thing? Does body spray attract mosquitoes?
Speaker 1:I don't think so. Oh okay, I did not have body spray on and they loved me. Oh okay, so did not have body spray on and they loved me.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, so then it's not a thing. Then I just thought because I got ate up, my legs got ate up.
Speaker 1:It was mostly my legs for some reason my arms are fine.
Speaker 2:I got one here and then one here that has now started to stop itching a little bit. But because my fiance gave me this don't know pen. It's like an anti itch thing. Definitely you're supposed to have a prescription for it. Looks like he's supposed to have a prescription for it. It's not something I ever bought.
Speaker 1:What would you have to have a prescription for to get it?
Speaker 2:I'm sure there's some sort of drug in there no one is supposed to have without a prescription.
Speaker 1:I don't know what you're saying is it works really well.
Speaker 2:That's exactly what I'm saying and it's like in a little tube. It looks like you ever have one of those tight pins, you know, like a stain in your shirt, uh, like a stain remover pin.
Speaker 1:Anyways, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:I've never had one, but got you it looks just like that, just like that and it's got. You know, this contains whatever drug, some long name that I didn't care to pronounce, but because my fiance gave it to me, I just immediately trust her. It could have been poison. Poison it could have been, I would, I would have been dead right now. I she gave it, she was like this a help and I was like wonderful, so I used it and it did. It did indeed, it worked well, good for you yes, someone I can trust.
Speaker 2:Yes, today let's talk about what is or we'll start off with what is christian nationalism and why is it bad for societies oh, you hit me with the tough question today uh, christian nationalism, uh, is used to essentially define more of the extremist um, usually far right, but it's not always far right politically speaking Views that are just tied and combined with Christianity or evangelism. But be Christian nationalists or people who are committing violent acts or threatening violent acts as a way to move a political agenda in the name of Jesus or doing it for God People. You know they usually get the term Christian nationalism, but I think Christian nationalism is a bad idea, in the same way that just about all nationalism is a bad idea. Yeah, america at least is founded and it supports a diverse group of people. It supports a diverse group of people.
Speaker 2:So whenever you are pushing your agenda as the supreme agenda, then, number one, I think that's contrary, it is in itself anti-American. And then, of course, number two, it turns violent. It always gets violent, turns violent, it always gets violent. And I am just not of the persuasion, even as a Christian, that God desires for you to be bombarding the United States Capitol on January 6th. But is that a Christian movement?
Speaker 1:No no.
Speaker 2:But there have been and I can say this not just as an American citizen, but as a Christian there have been a lot of Christian apologetics for that kind of violence that we've seen. The same people that we say the 2020, george Floyd, black Lives Matter riots were wrong and violent, and they were violent. Rioting is never a good thing. They were violent. We did have's never a good thing. They were violent. Right, uh, we did have town, cities, businesses destroy.
Speaker 2:Well, those same people are making excuses, uh, and trying to free and or pardon those people who literally broke into the united states capital while the united states vice president was there, along with members of Congress, to certify an election that was held months ago. They did it in front of cameras, they did it on the screen and they did it to make a point. They did it to prove a point that, as they believe, the 2020 election was stolen and so the certification of the results should have been stopped. Of course, I disagree with that. All of that is ridiculous. Every one of those claims that the 2020 election was stolen has been debunked.
Speaker 1:Well, they had to make sure that those really, real prophets that were claiming Trump was going to become president, they had to make sure that they do.
Speaker 2:So you know what I can't? Actually, I probably would have did the same thing. Listen, if I'm a prophet and I done got your money and you don't believe me when I told you that Trump was going to be president for life. We going to the U S Capitol on January six. We got to make sure that he could be president for life, otherwise how am I getting my money?
Speaker 2:So you know, listen, I'm from Detroit and in Detroit we don't knock nobody's hustle. So if your hustle is out here getting money from people and getting support from people, by spreading lies and disinformation, misinformation, you go right ahead. But for me, and mine.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying I don't knock nobody's hustle If that's what you do, that's what you do. All I can do is pray for you and not buy in to conspiracy theories and not buy in to foolishness, and even if I do, I'm not buying in to acts of violence in order to propel or to push whatever agenda that I have, even if I think it's the most right thing to do.
Speaker 1:Right? Why do you think that people, especially on the right, think that liberalism is going to kill Christianity and cause the downfall of American society?
Speaker 2:I honestly I don't know. I can't, I can't really speak to that. I don't follow a lot of the conspiracy theories. I'm not in in that, in the echo chamber of the right wing or the echo chamber of the left wing, so why or how these things come into being. I'm just just like I hear stuff from both sides and I'm like both of you sound crazy, but I think that's where I'm at too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everybody's got facts Right. Everybody's right, or?
Speaker 2:correct Y'all. All can't be right. You both can't be right. So it's like, at this point it's just getting ridiculous, but I think it's more of fear mongering. It's like it's at this point it's just getting ridiculous, but I think it's more of fear, fear mongering, it's more fear. I studied political science in undergrad and worked in Congress. I didn't work in Congress, I worked for a congressman, an intern at least did some campaigning myself on a few campaigns. One thing, one thing that I learned about politics early on, very quickly, is that it is intentionally divisive and I say that not to cast, not to disparage anybody that I'm connected to.
Speaker 2:I still know a lot of politicians from the right and the left right I got a lot of friends who are who vote democratic.
Speaker 2:I got a lot of friends who vote republican, right, yeah? Um, so I say that not to disparage anybody, but I'm just stating the obvious, right, it's politics, especially in our two-party system, is it is intentionally divisive. Um, 90 percent of the things that happen in this country republicans and democrats actually agree on it's those. It's that 10 of things that's blown out of, that's blown way out of proportion, and it is the loudest voices in the room that are usually on the fringe, uh, that take over the conversation. And so most of america and I choose to believe this most of america exists somewhere in the middle, and most of america, we're in the middle, saying I don't like what the left is saying, I don't like what the right is saying, I want somebody in the middle, and it's like I. Every election, we get further and further in the trenches, yeah, and I feel like there's there's more and more of americans now, um, who are just in the middle, and they and we're kind of stuck in the middle, because being in the middle doesn't make you any money, right?
Speaker 1:you're not going to make any money in politics.
Speaker 2:Uh, if you have a cable news program, youtube show, like, you don't make any money. You don't get any views. By agreeing with people, you don't get support. By uniting people and reconciling differences, you get support, you get views. You get money when you are dividing people and you are telling them why they should believe you because you're absolutely right and why they should believe you because you're absolutely right and why they should never believe them because they're absolutely wrong.
Speaker 1:Do you think it's always been this divisive with politics and social media and our technology has made it seem worse, or has it just gotten worse in recent years?
Speaker 2:I sort of think it's kind of both and I think technology, of course, has helped to make it seem a lot worse than it actually is, but I also think it's getting worse. It's getting bad. Who cannot make a decision based on whoever the president is, based on the merits, and then you got the other half of the country who literally will just never like whoever the president is because they're not in the same political party. I would call that pretty bad. How do we get anything done? You know, as a country, as a society, when the people who voted for the guy in office would do everything to apologize, even if they disagree with the guy in office, and then the people who didn't vote for the guy in office would do everything to destroy the guy.
Speaker 2:It's like, you know, we end up in a place that I feel like we are and that is constantly fighting over things, some of which ultimately doesn't make sense and it will not make any long term impact impact, and we end up fighting over things that right the people with the money in their pockets, the people who control what we see, what we do, what we talk about, actually benefit. And I'll just say this this is the United States of America, this is the land of capitalism and, by the way, I love it. I love capitalism more than I love socialism.
Speaker 1:You can't say that as a Democrat, though. That's not allowed.
Speaker 2:It's not allowed.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:That's funny that you even say that, because usually when you ask any of my Democratic friends, they say Lawrence is Republican, and then when you ask my Republican friends, they say Lawrence is a Democrat.
Speaker 1:So it really Well that's because I've noticed this too is you take one little thing and change it, it's like you're no longer on our side. Exactly For me it's. I think that animals on farms should be treated well and they should be free range.
Speaker 2:You're liberal.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there it is.
Speaker 1:And I and I don't want to eat. That, yeah, there it is, and I and I don't want to eat you. That's exactly what happens, and I'll make fun of certain people for eating food like chips, because I think chips are just they have so many ingredients, and then they think that I've changed and it's just like come on, guys yeah why are we not caring what we put in our body like why? Why is that not?
Speaker 2:It should make more sense. It's the same thing. I start talking about the Second Amendment and how I believe in the Second Amendment and you know me, I like guns, I like going to the gun range, right. When I start doing that, right, all of my Republican friends are like, okay, yeah, he conservative, I knew it all along. And then soon as I start talking about conservationism, right, and how we should be lowering our carbon footprint, how we should be taking care of the environment, yeah, then my Republican friends be like he'd been a liberal this whole time. I knew it, you know. So it's like, again, it's the people in the middle and I feel like it's us, those people in the middle, who is just like OK's, it's us, those people in the middle, who's just like okay, yeah, I like some things that the left is saying. I like some things that the right is saying.
Speaker 2:I don't like either too much that I'm willing to fight and kill and you know, breaking the buildings and stuff like that, um, but I'm like know, there's some room for some compromise there, there's some room where we can get along and actually move the country forward. But again, that not only gets you no money, but when you are trying to get people to get along and compromise. You don't get any votes. People don't show up on election day to vote for a candidate or to vote. People don't show up on election day to vote for a candidate or to vote. People don't show up on election day to vote for somebody. They show up on election day to vote against somebody. We don't vote for the person we like. We vote against the person we hate the most, and so your job as a candidate is to get people to hate the other guy the most.
Speaker 1:I've noticed that it's never really ads saying what they're going to do.
Speaker 2:It's just what the other guy is doing wrong wrong, right, they're bad, they're racist, they're socialists, they're fascists. By the way, this is one of those rare times I get to use my political science degree, so I'm just going to take it. Uh, if you are calling somebody like joe biden or even Donald Trump, for that instance both a fascist, a socialist and an authoritarian person, you don't make any sense and I'm going to just leave it right there. I'm not going to give you the whole free lesson because I had to pay for my degree, but if you are calling them all three things, I just want to let you know that you sound stupid and you should really stop.
Speaker 1:There's people who call one of them or both of them, all three things, all three things, all three things.
Speaker 2:And it's like that shows that you just really don't like that person and that's okay. I want us to be okay with saying I'm not voting for them just because I don't like them. I don't like the color that they wore, I don't like that brown. So just because he wore that brown I saw him last tuesday just because he wore that brown, he ain't getting my vote. I want us to be okay with that. But don't justify your your vote or attempt to justify your vote for or against based on lies, yeah, and based on disinformation, because then that's where I I just get just totally upset. But anyway, I forgot the question that, uh, that you had asked.
Speaker 1:But I don't think I remember either, but I was gonna ask how do we go about lowering our carbon footprint?
Speaker 2:it takes each and every one of us.
Speaker 1:First of all, you have to believe, but should it be a forced thing to do by the government, saying, hey, you have to do this or you, we're gonna make it, so you can no longer make gasoline cars, they all have to be electric. Or should we just try and change within each person, saying, hey, this is what's helpful for the planet.
Speaker 2:So let me make my Democratic friends mad here. I am against banning gasoline vehicles. Oh, you're not a Republican, see, I told you I'm against banning gasoline vehicles, and I will also admit that it's just personal desire. I don't the sound of a Mustang, of a gasoline powered Mustang engine.
Speaker 1:They try to copy it. With electric cars you can't copy it, but they try.
Speaker 2:You can't do it. It's like meat and then impossible meat. You tried it. I can taste the difference. It's a no for me. Yeah, so it's kind of out of just personal desire. Man, you can't beat that kind of sound. Or like on the dodge charger, you know, you, I hear him on the freeway all the time, always ramping up. You just can't, you can't beat that sound. So, um, I, I, I am against that.
Speaker 2:I am for all of us, though, being educated and then doing our part to lower our own carbon footprint and also for the kind of the state compelling folks to to lower their carbon footprint. While I disagree with it, I do understand it, and the one thing that we as Americans, and even we as Christians living in America, that we don't understand a lot of times is that, while we are very individualistic, we live in a community, so what you do may not necessarily hurt you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it may hurt someone in the community. And you know, as an American, I don't care. I'm just being completely honest. As an American I don't care. But as a believer, as a Christian I believe biblically I'm compelled to care about the people who are hurting in the community. So if I am doing something that is not only contrary to the Bible and that it's being a good steward and I believe part of saving the planet is being a good steward of what God has given us If I believe that, then I'm also in favor of making sure that I am not doing anything that, intentionally or unintentionally harms my neighbor. And the simple fact is to answer your question how do we do that? First, you must believe that climate change is real. Simple as that. You first must believe that climate change is real. If you don't believe that climate change is real, then there's no point in you doing anything to lower your carbon footprint is real then there's no point in you doing anything to lower your carbon footprint, right, because we know.
Speaker 2:You know we're too small of people to one. One guy says we're too small of people to have that big of an impact on the planet. But we went to the moon, sir, but allegedly, allegedly what we did do, which is absolutely true we made nuclear weapons yes we did so, and we dropped them on yes, I, I would think if we can make nuclear weapons, then maybe we can have an impact on on our planet, uh, in many more ways than one.
Speaker 2:um, but you know, first you must believe that climate change is indeed real and you must believe that it is our responsibility as humans, and especially as believers, to take care of what we've been given. When God created man and woman, he put them in a garden.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep, he didn't put them in a city, he didn't put them in an office building, he put them in a garden no-transcript to smoke in my backyard. Come on now. I was trying to barbecue. I didn't know whether somebody was selling chicken out there. What's going on? You know stuff like that. If there's a wildfire in canada, I mean it completely shut down new york yeah, dude, I remember I went on the beach.
Speaker 1:It was foggy because there was so much, so much smoke.
Speaker 2:It was all day too yeah, what happens in one place can and will have an impact somewhere else. So even if it doesn't affect us directly you know, I don't think that that should be the gauge just because it ain't coming to my house, I shouldn't really care about it. No, you should turn your water off, and I would admit I'm guilty of this brushing my teeth. I'll leave that water running, dude even I don't do that.
Speaker 1:That's bad. It's very bad. Is that a way of lowering our carbon that can help turning water off? That can help turning water off when we're not using it?
Speaker 2:Yes, when you're not using it, turn the water off. If you're not using the lights, turn the lights off.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's a given, though who leaves their lights on?
Speaker 2:With as high as electric bills are. I don't know anybody who's leaving their lights on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say it's like I turn them on each room. I go in and turn the next one off.
Speaker 2:Matter of fact, I save energy. I just use my flashlight up on my phone. We're not turning on lights. Today I thought about going to candles too. I burn a lot of candles, so that really helps too. Or night lights, energy-efficient light bulbs, the whole nine yards. I think it's important that each and every one of us, you know we do our part. If, if you don't have to drive today, um, then don't walk, you know. Go experience nature, go out and explore, yeah, um, but yeah, if you don't, if you don't have to be destroying the environment, let's not well, what are other ways that we destroy the environment?
Speaker 1:I mean we have water and electricity cars.
Speaker 2:Is that really all we can do is walk, if well, I mean, we're we're pretty much consuming oil, which is a finite resource. Yeah, uh, with everything that we buy from plastic, you know, phones, the, the lithium battery, uh, and this phone I bought a hybrid. There's a lithium battery in there. Right, that destroys the environment. We're digging for that, no matter where we're digging for for lithium batteries. So you know, it's it's kind of hard, but I think it's important that we stay mindful of it and not get to the point where it's just like, well, everything that I have is destroying the environment, so let me continue to do what I'm doing and not care. You know, again, this is America, this is a capitalistic society. So if there's something somebody wants to buy, I bet you there's somebody who can sell it. You, there's somebody who can sell it. And so if we start buying uh, more renewable, uh products, then people will stop selling non-renewable products. It's just that easy.
Speaker 1:I think too, with back with the animal thing, if you're buying meat from those big farms where they do keep them in cages and stuff, I think those can be bad for the environment it's true, methane gas cows biggest contributor of greenhouse gases.
Speaker 1:Now, while we're taking co2, I can't remember his name, but I read his book and he has a regenerative farm where he, like all the cows are outside, it's grass-fed, every, every animal. There is free range and the farm next door is one of those industrial, industrial ones, and it runs off into the river and you can see the difference in color from the water.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's disgusting yeah, I do think it's important. I ain't gonna talk about that too much because I don't want to have a mysterious heart attack because you know the farmers will come after you. But really I'm just joking, but only halfway. It's a powerful industry. I mean, you're not, you know, we spend hundreds of billions of dollars, just as a country you know, and subsidizing farms and meat and things of that sort. So, yes, we to eat healthy, but also people who are making money. They're not going to stop wanting to make money in order to go along with some.
Speaker 1:Well, they should switch it up and let their chickens out of the cages. Then I don't know.
Speaker 2:It would also be helpful. I think again, this is, I think, where personal choice comes in as well. It would be helpful if we, as individuals, we take that into account, right, if we take into account where you're buying your food, how you're getting your food, focusing, you know, and paying attention to what you're putting in your body. If we actually did that, that would be great. But also, listen, I'm from the ghetto. I was born in poverty. I was raised in poverty. I know firsthand that for a lot of people, especially in today's economy, for a lot of people, that is just not an option. It's either you live in, you know a desert where you can't get, you know, access to fresh groceries, and then the junk food that you do get access to is cheaper, not really right, because they give you less for that dollar that you're paying.
Speaker 2:But you know that junk food that you're buying is cheaper, but the simple fact is, for a lot of people, that's literally all they can afford.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I think that's where it it. It comes upon us as a community and I'm not saying community in a sense of American community, although I would love that, Um, um, but in this area I'm a little more pessimistic about America's chances of of of being a support center, and I think that's where the church comes in, right, Right, Uh, that that's where people you know. If you are a believer and you are living in excess, if you got two freezers full of meat and your neighbors down the street or around the block are going to bed hungry, I question your faith, Because you can't possibly be reading the same Bible that I'm reading or serving the same God that I'm serving. If you are that stingy that you're willing to let people in your neighborhood go hungry so you can have food for three months from now, Come on now. If we prioritized each other just a little bit more, I think that would be helpful.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that's going to happen with the way that churches are teaching the Bible these days, if they're even teaching the Bible, I was about to say that's the question teaching the Bible.
Speaker 2:I was about to say that's the question teaching the Bible. Because that message and I'm sure I just lost all my conservative friends upon that message because that's more liberal, that's more socialist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, not really, because you're asking Christians to do it themselves. You're not promoting the government coming in and saying, hey, you need to start giving all your friends. It never works.
Speaker 2:When we make the government make us do something nine times out of ten, it just doesn't work, and so I would rather us take it upon ourselves to make sure especially. We can't help everybody, obviously, resources are always limited, but one thing is for sure that if you got folks in your church and you're coming together every Sunday and the same family is walking in hungry Right, you've got to do something. Yeah, you've got to do something. If, every Sunday, there is a poor man outside in that same spot that you drive past on your way to and from church every Sunday, maybe even every Thursday or Wednesday or Tuesday, whenever you have Bible study, and you see him and he's been there for years and you're celebrating the fact that your church is growing, or you just got a new, brand new sound system.
Speaker 2:You just put in. If you're celebrating that in that homeless man or that those kids without food in your neighborhood are still without food, which are still without a home, again I question your faith. You can't be serving the same God that we're serving. I'm sure the Lord can hear you without that brand new mic. I am sure the Lord would rather you spend that extra money on feeding a needy family than making your house of worship, if that's what you want to call it. Look better.
Speaker 2:And again, I'm not criticizing no church, even the churches that I go to or that I frequent, but I think the global church it's on the big C church to make sure that we are meeting the tangible needs of the community. And if that means we got to give away you know you got an extra pork chop in your freezer that means you take it to the nursing home, right. If that means you're spending time down at the recreation center with some kids. If that means you know you're taking a day off work to go read to some elementary school kids, do that, do that, be active, show your face, face, right.
Speaker 1:I think that's the true meaning of being the church. Yeah, right, yes, going out and individually talking to people and reading to children or giving food. And I just had luigi on a couple weeks ago and he was saying how this guy went to china and he was gonna preach the gospel and barely anybody showed up. But he's like, okay, whatever, I'm just going to teach these three people. And then with that it's kind of like a pyramid scheme. Obviously we hate to use that term, but it goes out and then, millions of people converted to Christianity because of it.
Speaker 1:And I think if you did have a hungry neighbor giving them a meal, it doesn't. I think if you did have a hungry neighbor giving them a meal, it doesn't mean as much as you can afford give them that meal. You don't know what kind of change that's going to be in their life.
Speaker 2:That's the key. What you just said, that's the key. It's not about what you can afford, because if you were so faith-filled, because if you were so faith-filled, if you were so in tune with your God, you called him Jehovah Jireh, the God who provides.
Speaker 2:So if that was absolutely, true to you, then you wouldn't be worried about can I afford to give them this food? The question would be more so where they at? When can I drop it off? Yeah Right, god is going to provide for me. I've seen it happen before. There were times I remember I didn't have a job and I was broke, and I can tell you there was somebody, some kind of way, who brought me food. This is this, is no lie. You can ask my sister If she was here. She would tell you this.
Speaker 2:It was over the summer, in between college, you know, in between courses or semesters, and I was looking for a job all over and I couldn't get a job and I wasn't making any money. Every day I ate, hey Lawrence, we were having a party and we thought about you. Day I ate, hey Lawrence, we were having a party and we thought about you. You know heard you was home. Here's a plate. My sister worked in the kitchen at the hospital when they would have extra food. She'd bring me some food home. Boom, I ate. I ate every single day, and do you know, I not only ate, but I ate real good. I gained 10 pounds that summer. I never missed a meal while you were broke. While I was dead broke, I didn't have enough money get this. I had to ask my mama for a 20 so I can get hygiene products and thank goodness for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank goodness for that because I would have been full and stinking at the same time, but I I didn't go hungry.
Speaker 2:Every need that I had was met yeah and so even now I I have never been. Even now and I I've experienced more than that since then I am 100 sure where my source is, and it's not my job, it's not my job. I love my job. I thank god for giving me that job. But you know some trust in chariots, some trust in horses. You know some drink the rain and thank the clouds, not me. I know who my source is, yeah, and when you know who your source is, you don't have to worry about giving things away, because I know when I give it god said that he will have men given to your book, press down, shaking together and run it over some 10 fold, some 30, some 50, some even 100 fold. When I give it away, it's coming back. It's already coming back.
Speaker 1:I agree with all that, but what do we do about how? In Proverbs it says that we should grow an inheritance? Is it okay to save up money, is it okay to have a lot of money, or should we just die with zero?
Speaker 2:I don't think it's smart to die with zero dollars in your account and leave your kids nothing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't think that's smart, right? Your kids nothing, yeah, I don't think that's smart, right? What I I also don't think is wise, though, is to have so much money in access, yeah, that you don't know what to do with it, that you don't know what to do with it, um, so both are bad. Uh, you know, leave your children inheritance, don't? I know a lot of people who don't have a living will right now, for instance, and they're older, yeah, and so if they died, nobody would know what to do with their stuff, nobody would know how much debt that they're in or how much money that they make, and so all of their debts are going to their children, and then the children are trying to figure out what to do with the house, what to do with the car, what to do with the pension, all of that.
Speaker 2:I think that that is terrible. I think that that is irresponsible. But, again, if you are putting your hope in your faith and that's really what it's about If you are putting your hope in your faith, trying to save up a billion dollars for when you die in order to leave your kids the kind of inheritance that you want to leave them, um, I don't think that that's the most wise thing to do.
Speaker 1:We all would like to do it, but I don't think that that's the most wise thing to do yeah, all of that has me thinking because, if I being honest, when I do see the homeless people on the corner, sometimes I just ignore them, yeah. But what stops me is if I give them money, what if they do? Yeah, what if?
Speaker 2:it's actually a crackhead. What if it's somebody who's just panhandling, but they don't need the money? And then you give them your money, your $5 bill, your last $5, because in the name of Jesus, you want to prosper and be in good health and you want to bless somebody. Then they take your $5 and go jump in their bins and go home to their house in the suburbs. Yeah, I think we all think that and obviously we don't want to be fooled and I think that's really what it is. It has nothing to do with God, it has nothing to do with our biblical beliefs. We don't want to be fooled, we don't want to look like dummies and what God is saying, I think biblically, that's not the point.
Speaker 2:The point is, if you see somebody who is homeless, you can't investigate. What's your PI? Nah, you go investigate everybody that is homeless, you know. Do you investigate everybody who walks in the church to verify that they are Christian? I do. You check names at the door? You didn't pay your tithes last week so you could come back next week when you got payment in full. You know, if we start doing that in order to live out biblical beliefs, yeah, then that's where we get the problem, because it's not about don't get me wrong, it is about them right, but you have to love God and love God's people.
Speaker 1:Right, and the Lord ponders the heart Exactly. So, if you're doing something that's Right.
Speaker 2:So if I give you $5 and you go and you jump in your bins and you go home right to live in your mansion which, by the way, some of y'all I ain't gonna say no names, but some of y'all doing that every Sunday, giving to your church and your pastor Uh oh, we done got a trouble there you put your money in that collection plate and your pastor live in a multimillion dollar mansion and he drives a knife's truck, but you don't question where's all the money going and why we got so many hungry people sitting around the church with signs in their hands make it make sense.
Speaker 2:but anyways, um, if, if we start questioning, you know, does the other person um, you know, does it warrant us giving, or do they deserve that love, that favor, that gift?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Then that's contrary to the word of God. And what if every time you pray, even after the death of Jesus, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? What if God said you know, what does he deserve? Because, see, I forgave him last week and I've been trying to work with him, but he ain't listening to me. Does he deserve what? If God asked those same questions every single time there was a need that you had or that you went to him with? We wouldn't like that. No, we wouldn't like that, not at all.
Speaker 2:So the the, the giving part, it's not about showing our glory, or showing or or enlarging our ego. And then, when it is, then that's when we feel like I don't want to get food, so I'm not going to give, because they don't look like they extra homeless or they look like they drunk. So I'm not going to give them no money because you know I don't want them to go drink it away, and that's good. You shouldn't give them any money. If they're already drunk, you shouldn't give them money, right?
Speaker 2:Because they're going to drink it away.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Why don't you just go get whatever they say that they need?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've thought about that too.
Speaker 2:You can't, but I'm talking more while the middle of traffic right, and if you see somebody on the way to work and you see somebody homeless, you know you got money in your car. I I probably shouldn't say this on a podcast and admit this well, just know, I'm in favor of the second amendment. So you take that as you will, but when I get paid, I take money out of my account and I keep it in my car specifically for that reason. That's money that I need to give away. It's not part of my ties, but that's money that I give away.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, you shouldn't have said that Now all the pirates are coming after you Come right on. Because everybody here knows exactly where you drive you.
Speaker 2:Come right on, because everybody here knows exactly where you drive Exactly. Come right on. If you see me at a stoplight, just knock on the window and talk to me. But no, I think it's important. I think those are good questions. I think it's important that we always remain in a posture and with an attitude of freely giving. I'm not even expecting nothing in return from you and in fact, I don't want anything in return from you, because what you got does not compare to the glory of what shall be revealed. So if you ain't got nothing, I'm not worried. And if you got more than me, I'm still not worried, because me giving to you for me is not about you, it's about my relationship with God. And so if God can trust me to give away my last $5, then maybe he can trust me to give away my last $500, my last $5,000, my last 5 million.
Speaker 1:And so, as I should we make it that far?
Speaker 2:yeah, should we make it that far? Hey the lord, it could happen, I'm not saying it can't.
Speaker 1:It could happen if I had 5 million to give away.
Speaker 2:That'd be I do stupid dances in the mirror all the time. All I gotta do is put them to a beat and put it on the radio. I could be a millionaire tomorrow.
Speaker 1:You dancing. You think people want to see that.
Speaker 2:No, that's exactly my point. You ain't got to have a good dance, you just got to have a dance. You put it to a beat, especially a nice beat with directions, and then you know you can make money off of that. They do it all the time.
Speaker 1:Your ways of trying to make money are intriguing. Yeah, I'm a serial entrepreneur, I'll find a way. Serial entrepreneur.
Speaker 2:I'll find a way. I'll sell a book with one word in it. I'll find a way. My sister always used to say, lawrence, you can sell water to a well?
Speaker 1:Yes, I can, and it's fresh, fresh wouldn't work on me yeah I'm the snake oil salesman worst nightmare really yeah, what tactics you got? Tell the people anytime somebody tries to convince me of anything, I automatically just want to say no, just to make it so they can't persuade me. Even if what they're selling is what I want, I will still say no, just to make it so that uh-uh, that ain't safe.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna pray for you because that's a rebellious spirit, is it really? And we got to pray that up out of you. That's a rebellious spirit. That ain't got nothing to do with what they're saying.
Speaker 1:They got everything to do with how you feel well, if it was something that was Christian, obviously I'd take it in.
Speaker 2:Nah, it ain't got to be Christian. You can't even get them to the Bible. What if I wanted to sell you a Bible? I already have one. Well, this Bible has a Declaration of Independence in it.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, that makes me want it more.
Speaker 2:I'm sure it does, because don't you want the declaration of independence text of the word of god?
Speaker 1:it would be kind of cool to have a copy of that.
Speaker 2:Amen, I'm not gonna lie so, and then you can get this bible with your name engraved in it I see what you're doing.
Speaker 1:It's not gonna work you almost had me because the declaration. But then when you went with the engraved name it was like who?
Speaker 2:doesn't want their name engraved in their very own Bible. This is between you and your God. This is great for devotionals it's great for preaching.
Speaker 1:I don't know how I'd feel about my name being engraved in the Bible, almost like it'd be On the cover. Yeah, I feel almost like I'm idolizing myself.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely not. Not if you say to Caleb from God, that wouldn't be a lie. It's true, it wouldn't be a lie. You can get it. You can get it today, and if you act right now, I can make sure that I have that book in your hands for 30 off, only you. This is a deal that lasts only for a few minutes, so act now. You don't want to pay for a price. People who who pay full price are suckers, and you're not a sucker to me. You look like a very smart person. You look like a person who loves God, who loves the word of God, who loves teaching the word of God. So act right now. You can get this in your hand right now, tonight, and I'll make sure it is a special color in whatever you want it, whatever format nlt, nki, jv. The whole message bible, nki, gv. It's a new one that we just came up with. We can get that for you too. Whatever version you want, we got it for you. Credit card, debit card, no checks.
Speaker 1:I gotta use. I gotta use that for my advertisement for this podcast, that entire commercial you just gave to me. I'm telling you it works, it does I could be a good salesman. That was a good sales pitch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know why they didn't hire me for the pyramid schemes. Really no, I didn't get hired in the pyramid schemes. I applied for a couple. You know how they have it on the job boards You're looking for a job, so you start applying to all of them after a while, when you get no response. And there were a few of them. What do they call them the marketing? What do they call them Pyramid scheme? Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:No, they don't actually call it that.
Speaker 2:it yeah, what's the politically correct one to say the multi-level marketing yes, yes, that's it so I applied for the multi-level marketing uh, one multi-level marketing job and you know I went in for my interview. I thought it was a great interview, but they didn't hire me.
Speaker 1:I was disappointed why do you think that is? I don't know, maybe I wasn't a goodman. So then, pyramid schemes must work if they're constantly.
Speaker 2:Of course they work. You better ask Bernie Madoff.
Speaker 1:Is that how he made all his money? Yes, I don't know anything about Bernie Madoff, to be honest.
Speaker 2:Okay, I work in accounting, yeah, and so when it comes to financial crimes a lot, of people like true crimes are like murder, death and all that.
Speaker 1:I don't I don't care for all that. Every now and again, yes, but I can I listen to a podcast about national parks. Yeah, true crime with national park. And then we go out hiking. It's like what are we doing?
Speaker 2:yeah, that would scare me. I don't. I don't think I could listen to that on the on a regular um, but anything that has to do with financial crimes like enron, the enron scandal. You don't know nothing about that, but I'm listening. I literally listened to an audio uh book. It's like it's literally about 18 hours long and I am loving every single moment of it's like these people are just they're not idiots. You can't call them idiots. They're very smart. They're tricking people to put money in, basically a bottomless pit that they're just using for themselves.
Speaker 2:But anyways, um, yeah, like you know, bernie made he made all of his money, um, taking in investors saying that he was investing their money, coming up with documents, fooling them and then using their money to, you know, basically buy whatever he wants. So you know you'll see him. Well, we didn't have it back then, um, but if it was today, you would have saw him on Facebook live, you know, instagram, touring the world and making sure your investments are safe and all the your investments ain't safe at all. Yeah, so I'm more interested in stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Do you know about the Fyre Festival that was?
Speaker 2:happening?
Speaker 1:Yes, I thought that one was interesting, that one came out of nowhere on my algorithm. But I did find that one interesting, Kind of funny too.
Speaker 2:It was kind of funny, but I think the thing um that, and I'm curious as to what you found most interesting. I think the thing that I found most interesting was the connect with ja rule and having him be a part of it and having him be sort of like a spokesperson, for usually with these pyramid schemes they don't think to that level. You know. They don't think about partnering with somebody in the music business, right A well-known name, to then do it.
Speaker 1:How did Ja Rule fall for it though?
Speaker 2:Listen. All you got to do is cut him a check.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 2:So they probably had enough money to cut him a check. And he's like, okay, well, I'm on, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Let's get jiggy with it, and then it comes out that it's a scheme. Now, that is not to say that he didn't know beforehand. So I don't want to speak and that's allegedly. I don't know any facts, I don't know any conclusions, but I would like to assume that he had no idea that this was a scam. I would like to assume that he had no idea that this was a scam.
Speaker 1:I would like to assume, Assuming that he does he did know that it was a scam. Do you ever fear that you could be that driven for money where you would set up something so big or lie to people to make a bunch of money?
Speaker 2:I do think that I think everybody has a tendency to be driven for money.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So when you are broke and somebody's offering you a very fat check, one that the size that you've never seen a day in your life before there will be, you know a propensity to accept that check. My problem is more. So nobody will offer me a check because I talk too much, and that's why people just can't do crimes around me. I'm telling you right now Now y'all can call me a snitch if you want to, but I'm telling you right now, if you do crimes around me, I got to tell somebody I have to say something. It's so juicy Like I just I'm the nosy neighbor. First of all, if you live next to me, I know all your business. I know exactly how many times that person came to your house last week and I know exactly what they was where, and I know exactly when their last birthday party is. Why? Because I'll be looking so. So that's how I know that's not nosy neighbor that's stalker.
Speaker 2:Yes, I just, I just, I know I'm nosy, I'll be all in people's business. I shouldn't be. And then I got to tell somebody. Now, unless you're telling me, well, if you're my best friend, we got a relationship and you're saying, lawrence, don't tell nobody. I ain't going to tell nobody, but God.
Speaker 1:I was just starting to question all the things that I've told you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't question things. You tell me. If you told me, hey, lawrence, don't share this with anybody, I'm going to tell God because I have to tell somebody, but I ain't telling nobody else. But if we're doing crime, especially if it's a big crime, if we're stealing a billion dollars, don't tell nobody. I told you, bud, next week. I'm about to come up. I can't tell you exactly how, but I'm about to have a billion dollars. Who you going to be with? I can't tell you who you going to be with Lawrence. Okay, I got to tell you it's going to be Caleb, but don't tell him. I told him, like, that's me, I got to tell somebody. I can't keep that a secret. Really, I can't If a secret. That's why, if I worked for Bernie Madoff, I would have had a mysterious heart attack.
Speaker 1:Oh, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would have had an unexplainable car accident. What you mean unexplainable? It wasn't no other cars involved, he was in a desert and somehow he ran into a tree and we still don't know how that happened. Yeah, I would have had a mysterious car accident because if I was working for him, I would be like yeah, you go ahead, mr uh madoff, you do your thing and I'll be on the phone. My mind, you ain't gonna never believe who we stand today and that's my problem. So I, in light of that, I honestly don't think I have to worry about somebody offering me a big check to then go out and lie because so your worry is that you would tell everybody and you could possibly die.
Speaker 1:It has nothing to do with how good of a heart you should have, Right?
Speaker 2:right, yeah, I'll tell everybody the wrong thing and then I would mysteriously disappear.
Speaker 1:Yes, so out of fear of mysterious heart attacks, you will not be. I tell the truth.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's easy to tell the truth, and I tell everybody who want me to lie, just don't tell me. Because if you tell me and you tell me, lawrence, don't you know, tell a lie, so that way we can get away with the crime. I may tell a lie on the way to the police station, but as soon as we get up in there and the DA walk in and say, lawrence, I'm giving you 30 years If you don't let me know. Okay, yeah, he was wearing blue and he called me at 6 38 PM. I got his phone number. I got the text message. What else you want to know? His mama wear red every third Sunday. His mama wear red every Thursday Sunday. I know everything. So that's why I'm not afraid of anybody ever giving me a check. For that I would definitely take the money and run and not tell anybody ever?
Speaker 2:See, I'm going to ask the.
Speaker 1:Lord to touch your heart. Well, the Lord needs to touch your heart too, because you said you were only driven because you'd get in trouble or because you have to tell somebody Right, and then you could possibly die Right? But if you were immune to death in this instance?
Speaker 2:Yeah, violent, serious death that is. Yes, it'd be nice if it was quick, but they never make it quick. You know they got to torture you and stuff.
Speaker 1:Do they really? Yeah, they got to. You think that's what happened to the Boeing guy.
Speaker 2:What Boeing guy.
Speaker 1:The Boeing guy who was coming out about the airplanes not being safe.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, now listen, I don't think that anybody needs to torture the Boeing whistleblower, because anybody who has flew on any plane for the past 10 years we can all see they've been falling apart. So I feel like the Boeing whistleblower is not really the whistleblower, he's just the guy who's just been talking like. It's like we see they falling apart. We've been contacting management for years now. It's like we see they falling apart. We've been contacting management for years now. It's like now everybody it's like the media is now picking up on the fact that it's falling apart. But, you know, do you think anything will be done about that? The whole Boeing thing.
Speaker 1:They're going to change anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no. Why would you yeah?
Speaker 1:They've been working pretty good so far. They make it to point A, to point B, yeah, yeah, and I, you know it's the only.
Speaker 2:What American supplier of airplanes Do you think we're going to, as Americans, do you think we're going to say, oh, let's buy the Airbus, all of the Airbus are nice, airbus, airbus, yeah.
Speaker 1:The Europe plane. Europe distributed planes, so we only have one company. Boeing Making airplanes.
Speaker 2:In that order.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I like that.
Speaker 2:And that's why they ain't got to change nothing. I mean, they have to say that they're changing something. Well, duh, right, but they don't actually have to change it. Especially when you already lobby and bankroll the politicians, don't really have to change it. Especially when you already lobby and bankroll the politicians, you don't really have to.
Speaker 1:But in normal whistleblowing situations, do you think they really torture the people before they kill them?
Speaker 2:Of course. Otherwise what would be the point of killing them?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know. That's scary to think about you got to torture them.
Speaker 2:You been out here running your mouth, not CBS, no, abc, no, cnn, no NBC, no, everybody know. Just because of you.
Speaker 1:You got to be tortured. How do you think they catch them? Maybe going?
Speaker 2:to the grocery store.
Speaker 1:Really, and then just snatch them up there.
Speaker 2:Everybody needs groceries yeah, really. And then just snatch them up. Everybody needs groceries, yeah. So if I'm a whistleblower, I ain't go go to a nightclub cause I'm be scared, I'm gonna get capped, but I got to eat. Yeah. I ain't going without my ribs on the 4th of July or on Juneteenth, so that's, that's at least where I would get got. If I'm the whistleblower, I would get got.
Speaker 1:If I'm the whistleblower, I would get got in the parking lot of myers, but do they just kidnap him and bring him somewhere?
Speaker 2:I don't know how to have. I don't know why you asked me this. Like I'm the international.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that they tortured them.
Speaker 2:I thought they just I have no idea whether or not they actually tortured them. I have not read not one book I have nobody, I bet you know. Yeah, if I did, I would be rich.
Speaker 1:It's true, but you would have told me by now.
Speaker 2:I would have told you by now. See, if I knew, I would have told you by now, then I would have died and then you'd be. Like you know, ago my old friend lawrence told me something about this. I can't remember because I'm 87 years old, but but he told me something about this and he was right so, with uh having a big mouth, would you ever be a whistleblower?
Speaker 1:yes, even though but wouldn't you, yeah't you be afraid to die?
Speaker 2:Yes, I, of course, would be afraid to die, but honestly, I feel like telling the truth is better than the alternative. Yeah, and that is, of course, telling the lie, especially if this is detrimental to people. We criticize politicians for lying all the time yeah, and they're just trying to save their jobs Right, but we are willing to lie in order to save our behinds yeah, no, I don't think that's great.
Speaker 1:Now, I think the difference is if every company you work for, you whistleblowing because you think it's wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can overdo it. Right, there is an overdo it. It's like you know, if your whistleblowing is the ceo cheated on his wife, I'm sorry, biblically that's wrong, but also we don't care. The question is do we got business this month? Am I getting paid friday? Because if I'm getting paid fr cheat on your wife all day, cut my check.
Speaker 1:But they also say that people who cheat on their spouse, you don't want them in places of power or authority because it's very low integrity. Yeah, you can't be trusted, especially in jobs like firefighting or driving an ambulance or something, because you know they're going to cut corners. Now, that's true, you don't want to cut corners.
Speaker 2:You don't want to cut corners, but you don't want to cut corners as a CEO, either You're going to slash my paychecks Exactly.
Speaker 2:Exactly. So there's that. Yeah, they round down, but I'll be looking. Oh, hold on, I was supposed to have 49 cents up on here. Why is it 48? Somebody better give me my cents. No, I don't know. I don't even know how we got up on this conversation, but no, I think there is something to telling the truth and I don't think that us, as a society, we we pride that anymore, we give any uh credence to that. We, we like people who tell the truth for the stuff we like to hear, yes, um. And that becomes a problem, because when we only want people to tell the truth against the people we don't like, we believe anything that they say, we believe anything that they say. Then we believe anything that they say.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's where I feel like the problem is, because, especially in a world now where we live, where everybody has their own truth, yeah, right, and truth is no longer objective. It's like all I have to do is speak against the person you don't like and now you believe every single thing that I'm saying, as if it's true to the point early 2020 election being stolen, right, right, that that took off out of nowhere, like I was just sitting at home eating a peanut butter sandwich and, all of a sudden, the news came on and they was january 6th and like, what's happening? What's going on? Um, right, it, it took off, and people who, who genuinely believe that they got verifiable facts and evidence. You see the movie a thousand mules or two thousand mules, or whatever that movie is, and it's like, yes, by the known conspiracy theorist. I don't know, but continue.
Speaker 1:Well, you know they say the only difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth is six months.
Speaker 2:I like that. I may have to use that in a sermon to illustrate something else, but that's interesting. Why is that? Why is that? Why is that? Just because people forget?
Speaker 1:No, it's saying that a conspiracy theory comes out and then, six months later, it ends up being true. I see I see how would you use that in a sermon.
Speaker 2:That people we believe anything that we hear if we like it. People like their ears being tickled. Timothy, that's what it says in timothy, we like our ears being tickled.
Speaker 2:And then we, you know we can have a false prophet, you know we can have anybody, as long as they're saying what tickles our ears? What tickles our ears, um, and it doesn't help that we are consumers, um as well, not just of, of, you know, american goods and things of that sort, but we are consumers when it comes to faith. Yeah, we have a consumer mentality. So we got people who won't go to churches, who don't have, like a certain standard for worship, um, we got people who won't go to churches who don't have, like a certain standard for worship. We got people who won't participate, you know, in community or faith building community, because they don't have or they don't meet a particular standard. And it's, it's become horrible because then the people on stage who are really after god's heart right, allegedly, allegedly, but I can tell you for myself, yes, yes, I, I believe you.
Speaker 2:I don't care about politics, don't get me wrong. Six years ago, ten years ago, I cared so much about politics right, if you knew me 10 years ago, I care so much about politics. Now I don't. It's intentionally divisive. And if I have to be that bleeding heart liberal or that racist conservative in order to introduce you to Jesus at this point in my life. Call me what you want to call me. Right, I can die on that hill.
Speaker 2:Right, if I can get you into an atmosphere or to a community of faith, um, and you know, if it, if that means, uh, I, I am calling you whatever name. You go by whatever name you want. If that means I am not going to intentionally and disrespectfully misgender you, so be it. So be it, because it's not about what I believe, it's not about what I believe, it's not about what I think, and by doing that, I am neither rejecting nor accepting who you are. I am leading you to Jesus. Right, I am trying to show you what real love looks like, and that is the same love that I received. And so, yeah, I'm. I'm not the whole political the, the, the, the social, all of those agendas, both on the right or the left, I'm not interested. I would love it if the church, the big C church that is, stood up and we pushed our agenda loving your neighbor, caring for your community, taking care of the people around you, spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. That should be more important.
Speaker 1:Do you think it's okay to street preach?
Speaker 2:Yes, 100%.
Speaker 1:What about at LGBTQ festivals?
Speaker 2:I think it's okay. I don't think it's the smartest thing to do, right? But I am also cautious in saying we all have a role to play, right? Yeah, we all have a role to play. I don't believe that the Lord has called me to preach Against anq plus community at an lgbtq plus conference you know, I just asked because on my everybody's youtube algorithms are different.
Speaker 1:On mine it's showing this guy who, who does that, he goes with the microphone and speaker and they just hate him. I can't say that I necessarily blame them, because he's preaching against their lifestyle. So I mean, what would you think if you were in their?
Speaker 2:shoes or any lifestyle. Stand outside of any church on Sunday and preach against adultery, preach against lying? Well, you can't, because then the church would be empty. Exactly my point. Exactly. If we start preaching against those sins, then we ain't gonna have nobody to pay tithes. So it's like we have a way of picking and choosing. But the simple fact is we gotta work out our own salvation first and we should preach what we believe, but definitely not in a.
Speaker 2:The word of God itself is like a two-edged sword. We know that verse. I don't need to add anything to it to make it any more potent. Right, when you read the word of god, if you are a true believer and if you have a biblical worldview which we always talk about but none of us live by if we have a biblical worldview, anytime you read the bible, anytime you are in prayer, your politics Republican, democrat, liberal, conservative your politics will be offended. If your politics is not offended, you're reading the Bible. You're reading the Thomas Jefferson Bible.
Speaker 2:Exactly my point. Exactly your politics are offended. Your perspectives, your worldly perspectives are offended. Your politics are offended. Your perspectives, your worldly perspectives are offended. Your habits are offended when you are really trying to get closer to God and when you really ask God to consume you with this fire, everything that you like, your desires, should be offended. And if you are not offended, then you're reading the wrong Bible, or at least you're reading it the wrong way.
Speaker 2:So, with that said, if I am preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, I don't need to add anything to it to make it any more potent, to make it any more offensive. It is, on itself, both a sword to you and to me, because I can't preach it without hearing it first. And if my life doesn't line up with what it's saying, then god is not just coming after you for doing what's contrary to his word, but he's coming after me too. The bible says that clearly, meaning meaning. On the day of judgment, many people cry. Well, lord, lord, I prophesied in your name, I healed the sick in your name. The verse scares me. Depart from me, you, workers of iniquity. I never knew you. Yeah, what, what? What joy is to live a full life, uh, of being a christian and then get to that day, and then you're turned away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but what exactly does he mean in that verse? Because I mean, it genuinely scares me, because I'd like to think that I'm Christian and I love Jesus, but he says many. He doesn't say some. He doesn't say a few, he says many will come in my name, yeah. And they will cast out demons in my name, yes, and I'll turn them away and say I never knew you.
Speaker 2:Because the gifts of God are without repentance. So the powers of darkness, the powers of the enemy, responds to the name of Jesus in ways that we no longer do. God has become so commonplace to us we talked about this last week. There's just no place sacred anymore. There's no time sacred. We don't take anything.
Speaker 2:I remember growing up sometimes if we were walking past a church, nobody cussed, nobody raised their voice. It could be a Catholic church. You didn't do it because we were all scared. If you cussed, if you had sex in a church parking lot, if you smoked in a church parking lot, god is sending out a lightning strike. Now we got to explain why you did. At the church we believe that so strongly. We treated those places as sacred spaces. We no longer do that anymore and, yeah, that's a whole different, another topic.
Speaker 2:But, um, what, what is what? What is sacred? Right, the, the powers of darkness. Although we have brought god so much down to our level and we have equated him and he has become so commonplace in our lives, the powers of the enemy they still recognize the name of God. Yeah, and the gifts of God are without repentance.
Speaker 2:So if God has given you the gift to prophesy. You can use that for him or you can use that for the powers of darkness, and it has the same potency, it has the same effect. Obviously, if you're using it for the powers of darkness against God, all right. God is always going to be most powerful. But you can, you can choose to use it for him, use it for god, or use it for the, the powers of darkness, um, but when the powers of darkness hear the name of jesus, when they're hearing the gospel, it's still potent, it still works, and so you can get a reaction right if you're preaching jesus, if you are casting out enemies or demons in the name of Jesus.
Speaker 2:Demons know Jesus? Yes, they do. You don't, which is the problem. That's scary. You don't, which is the problem. And so you can get to the day of judgment and it's like yeah, no, you did cast out demons, or what is it? The book of Numbers. The book of Numbers is one that's. I think the Book of Numbers is one of the most interesting books of the Bible.
Speaker 1:It's funny you say that because most pastors go up there and make fun of it, because there is so many verses of just labeling all the tribes and how many numbers of people were in each one.
Speaker 2:It's also one of the most scariest books of the Bible for me. It's also one of the most scariest books of the Bible for me. I believe it's in the book of Numbers, where people were offering sacrifices to the Lord but they didn't obey him. And the Bible says that God opened the ground and swallowed those people and closed the ground up. And then he says obedience is better than sacrifice.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine seeing that today? A man the ground opening up, just open up. And then close, close.
Speaker 2:Crazy. That is crazy. And we think, because we are worshiping God or we are offering sacrifices to God, that that is what gets us in. God is like no, no, no, if you love me, you will obey my commandments. If you love me, you would follow me. You will pick up the cross and you will follow me if you love me. And so people get and they do in his name, they worship in his name, they sing in God's name, they prophesy in god's name, they preach in front of thousands of people in god's name. It doesn't make the anointing any less strong. The anointing will still fall because god will be god even when you're old, disobedient yeah but why?
Speaker 2:why live a of sin, be up in front of people preaching or singing or trying to lead people to God or doing things in the name of God, only to not make it in?
Speaker 1:Sounds like a waste of a life.
Speaker 2:It sounds like a waste of a life. You might as well went out and did all the sin you wanted to do, if that was the case to do. If that was the case, like like if everybody else that you're preaching to is grabbing hold and getting saved and you're not then that's, that's a problem, that's a problem.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I I think I'm not a theologian, I didn't go to a school of divinity or anything like that, but I I think that that's what it's leaning at, that you can still do things in the name of God, because God's power is not limited by what you do or by what you think or believe. God is going to be God, period, and the enemy responds to the name of God in ways again that we just no longer do, and that's terrifying.
Speaker 1:That is terrifying. Well, I'm glad that I have an honest heart sitting across the table from me, for sure, for sure. But it is getting late. Yes, and we're old, so we got to get on the bed soon. Mm-hmm. So everybody again, thanks for listening. Thanks Lawrence for coming back on, of course Anytime. And everybody have a blessed week.