Unhinged Christian
Welcome to Unhinged Christian Podcast, where we dive deep into the stories and perspectives that challenge conventional religious thought. Join me, Caleb Parker, your host and fellow seeker, as we embark on a journey to explore spirituality, faith, and humanity from a refreshingly open-minded perspective.
In each episode, I sit down with guests from diverse backgrounds and walks of life. From artists to activists, scientists to philosophers, we engage in candid conversations that transcend the boundaries of traditional Christian discourse. Together, we unravel the complexities of belief, doubt, and the human experience in the context of modern society.
Whether you identify as a devout believer, a skeptic, or something in between, Unhinged Christian offers a space for exploration and discovery. No topic is off-limits as we challenge assumptions, confront taboos, and embrace the richness of our shared humanity.
Join us as we navigate the intersections of faith, doubt, and everything in between. Tune in to Unhinged Christian and open your mind to a new dimension of spiritual inquiry.
Unhinged Christian
016: Embracing Biblical Manhood: A Modern Pursuit for Strength and Gentleness. With Luiggi Lopez
As we navigate the turbulent seas of modern masculinity, Luiggi and I embark on an expedition to uncover the true essence of biblical manhood. Our dialogue dances between the robust ideals of figures like David, the warrior-poet of scripture, and the contemporary Christian man, challenging the notion that strength and gentleness are mutually exclusive. We dissect the role of fathers and father-figures in sculpting communities and delve into the art of balancing our spiritual virtues with practical self-care—protein-packed meals and disciplined fitness regimes included.
With Luiggi's profound insights, we dissect the societal fabric torn by fatherlessness and the transformative potential of mentorship. Our candid conversation pulls no punches as we tackle the epidemic of passivity in modern men, urging a reclamation of assertiveness through stewardship, not ownership. We juxtapose the biblical narrative of masculinity from 1 Samuel with our current realities, inspiring a call to skillfulness, service, and emotional depth in the pursuit of a well-rounded manhood.
In our finale, we cast a vision for a spiritual awakening within the church that begins with one-on-one discipleship. Sharing personal tales of transformation, Luiggi and I illustrate the monumental impact intimate spiritual relationships can have beyond Sunday sermons. As we wrap up our profound discussion, we beckon our listeners to sow seeds of faith and foster relationships with God that transcend the confines of a church building, and to invite others to join us on this journey of faithful growth and community-building.
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Hey Luigi, how's it going today?
Speaker 2:Good, good. How are you bro?
Speaker 1:Good. Today we're going to be discussing biblical masculinity. Yes, let's go. What's your take on biblical masculinity?
Speaker 2:Dude, I think it's something. Are we going straight for it?
Speaker 1:Well, did you have anything else to say?
Speaker 2:We don't have to go straight for it, but I figured I think I wasn't going to answer the question. I was going to address an issue, so that's why I asked that. Oh, you want to address an issue, go with the issue, then we are today, people don't really know what it is to be masculine and there's this sense of oh, if you're a Christian, you're soft, you're gentle, and although that can be true of like, being gentle, being kind, yeah, I mean, those are the fruits of the spirit.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2:I think that eliminates. People tend to eliminate the actual like grit of what it is to be masculine Many times I've seen recently of just like not taking care of yourself physically. You know they don't clean up after themselves. It could be practical things like that.
Speaker 1:I think that's a big problem with the church today. We just don't talk about it. Being morbidly obese is a sin, yeah, and we don't talk about it. Unfortunately, it's a sin that everybody can see, but it's also not talked about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it's super important on how you would address that sin. With any other sin, I think this one's a little bit more sensitive because it, although other sin, probably kind of dips their toes into the aspect of identity. If you're obese, just it's obvious, it's pretty obvious. And then to talk about those things without actually having compassion as jesus would it, can be this detrimental thing of like, oh you're fat shaming me and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:So we really went there what about like sex shaming, though I mean mean, you could shame anybody for any sin. I mean that too.
Speaker 2:I just I don't understand why it's like all of a sudden we have to treat it extremely different when somebody is yeah, yeah, but I think a lot of it has to do with uh, cause, you said what is biblical masculinity? Well, who's your biblical? Who is your I'm trying to Role model Biblical? Role your biblical? Who is your I'm trying to role model biblical? Yeah, who's your no, no, no, like, who's your role model when you think of masculinity, who comes to your mind? For me, david in the old testament. Okay, that's amazing. That's amazing. I think a lot of people don't really think of actual biblical characters. Oh, you meant in real life, just in general. That's why I didn't say biblical masculinity uh, just in general.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know. I would think I would go with still david I don't really think there's not that he was like perfect, yeah, because obviously bathsheba we know yeah but there's a lot of people that would come off as masculine in hollywood, but they're not actually I got another david for you, david goggins of people think about him.
Speaker 2:People think about joe rogan. People think about what's this guy?
Speaker 1:navy seal jocko, jocko'so.
Speaker 2:Jocko's one, yeah, him too. And then there's Sam Sulek. He's huge, but anyways. So we think of masculinity, we think of these hard guys. No emotion, go to the gym all the time. If you don't go to the gym, go to the gym, it's good for you. And, yeah, and I think that we tend to go to extremities, and I think that we tend to go to extremities, so there's one that is not in tune with their actual masculinity of being strong, of actually growing and making their body stronger by going to the gym, by actually eating right, taking care of what they're. You know, protein is super important. Come on, let's go.
Speaker 1:I've been eating a lot more fish lately. Dude, I'm not gonna lie, this is to all of you.
Speaker 2:I've been eating a lot more fish lately. Dude, I'm not gonna lie, this is to all of you. I've been slacking. I was eating 250 grams of protein, that's a lot 1.7 of my body weight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for everybody. How do you for everybody listening? How do you get 250 grams?
Speaker 2:What's the secret? Five meals, 50 grams of protein of chicken.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of chicken. Yeah, it sucks. Meal prepping is not fun, just in my opinion. I basically wake up, eat. It depends. Most of the time it is just chicken, other times it's like 3 eggs and 6 grams of ground turkey actually gives me about 48 grams, so I'm a little shy. If I miss a meal, all right, protein shake, let's get it. But yeah, recently I've just maybe been hitting like 150. Just haven't really been home and it sucks, it's an excuse and it's whack, so I need to get back to it.
Speaker 1:150 still isn't bad, I don't think.
Speaker 2:It's not horrible.
Speaker 1:I don't think you really need to eat your body weight and then some in order to gain muscle.
Speaker 2:To a certain extent, yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't do that and I'm Decent. Yeah, it's like I. I was trying to get huge. Oh yeah, I'm yeah. Well then you got to add in the carbs too. Definitely dude six eggs and sardines I don't like sardines you gotta put hot sauce and you gotta get good. I don't like hot sauce.
Speaker 2:Well then, I don't know what to tell you then that's why I just go with chicken bro, chicken rice, broccoli can't go wrong, anyways, yeah, uh, we're talking about david goggins, we were talking about samson yeah, in the extremes chaco um no emotion, so we think of them being like oh two, in tune with your testosterone. And then we think of others that are like gamers.
Speaker 2:I play video games I yeah you know that we'll talk about that in a little bit. But then there's those who literally allow other things to consume their lives. That could be video games, it could be trading pokemon cards, and it could be anything. Watching tv football, just watching it, and, um, what tends to happen is we miss the mark, actually on both ways. So there's people that are sluggish with their lives. There's people who are irresponsible. They have duties and they'd rather play Call of Duty A instead of actually being more responsible with the things that they have. And then we have the other side, where they idolize how they look.
Speaker 2:They idolize their image, they idolize the pump. They idolize the pump, they idolize themselves and other things that we're sticking with masculinity. But we'll just say that for now, and something that I've learned recently is the greatest example of a masculine man is actually Jesus.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And I mean as a Christian. Yeah, of course, when I heard that I was just like duh, that makes sense. But then literally it took me about a week and a half where I started to, it kind of clicked. And again, as a Christian, you automatically agree with things whenever it's Jesus in a good way, in this case, the good ways of him being an example you know, but how did he do it?
Speaker 2:You know, when we look at Jesus, sometimes we tend to see him as this gentle guy with a little tear falling off of his, you know, with a crown of thorns, the shampoo model hair, yeah shampoo. Looking really good with his beard. I wish I could grow one and the reality is sure you know, curly hair whatever. But he was legit, the definition of what we should be as men.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We should be following his example. I honestly don't remember the exact scripture. I know it's in 1 Samuel something, but there was just like a few things that he talks about. That has I'm just going off the top of my dome because I really don't remember it that helps you begin to walk into biblical masculinity. And before we go there, I just want to also make it known to men who are listening one day, the majority of you are going to, or want to, get married and the thing is, if you don't recognize that you could possibly or most likely are not walking in biblical masculinity, I'm here to tell you that you are robbing your wife of her femininity. So just as much as we have, we have a design. So do they? And the thing is they're don't get me me wrong, but they're kind of like bears. When you think of a mama bear, it nourishes, it, looks after its cubs and stuff like that, and whenever there's a threat, that thing come, becomes the most feral animal there is on earth to protect its cubs.
Speaker 2:but when we think of feral, we think of masculinity, because it's something huge aggression, aggression, yeah, and the scary thing that's willing to do anything to protect its cubs yeah right now we apply that into humanity and you know, man, woman, kids, cubs, cubs yeah, when you are not that masculine figure that is willing to do anything to protect his family, the mother will go from this nourisher, this, uh, caregiver, this lover, into this feral being, not literally, but she will do what you aren't doing right, she has.
Speaker 1:They are capable of it. You know, you look exactly you.
Speaker 2:you look at single mothers. Man, my respects to you because you're literally playing the role of a mother and a father at the same time. And the reality is, our generation is so messed up because of fatherlessness. So if we're talking about biblical masculinity, we also have to talk about being a father, and it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be a father to someone that's of your own blood. I love my dad. Love him to death. He's been such a great leader, but since I was about 18, he hasn't been part of my picture. 26 now. So we're going on eight years, almost 10. And throughout the last eight years years, who's been pouring into me?
Speaker 1:is it intentional that he's not in your life?
Speaker 2:no, it's just part of, so he's in guatemala right, he, so he lives far away, so it's hard yes, okay, I think that's good to mention. Love him. Yeah, he's cool if you're watching.
Speaker 1:I didn't know if there was animosity between no, no, no or yeah, no.
Speaker 2:He just lives in guatemala. Obviously we're not there. Yeah, and yeah, it's just part of the nature I could grow in communication and stuff like that, and that's a whole another topic too. But yeah, and it's okay, we both love each other. He's doing well, I'm doing well.
Speaker 2:But going back to what I was saying is, who has been pouring into me? I'm an 18 year old dumb, reckless, want to do whatever I want from 20 or from 19 to about 22, 23. I was trying to be my own God. I did things how I wanted it to go and that wasn't very successful, but all the more there was always. I can kind of pinpoint to people who, men who tried to pour into me and I just rejected it. But as of recently, my dad has not poured into me and that's okay.
Speaker 2:But because of other people who said you know what, I'm going to be a father to Luigi, even though he's not my actual kid. I'm going to try to do my best to lead him and show him, through my own mistakes that I've committed in my past, that has affected me and allowed me to grow and become more wise, to be more diligent and to be more aware of the things that I've committed in my past. That has affected me and allowed me to grow and become more wise, to be more diligent and to be more aware of the things that I say and how I speak and where I go and what I do. I would say that is huge because when we start to take up that mantle of being a father, both to our offspring and those that are not, we begin to attack the kingdom of the enemy. Offspring and those that are not, we begin to attack the kingdom of the enemy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because dude, how I think I could be wrong but it's around 95% of prisoners today in America.
Speaker 1:One thing that they have in common is fatherlessness 95% 95, and also, it has to be said with about motherhood, is even the most well-meaning mother cannot raise a boy to be a man.
Speaker 2:Fully agree.
Speaker 1:I fully agree with you on that and that gets a lot of hate, but it's it's true, she just can't do it the way that a man, a boy, is supposed to be raised into a man it's not that she's not good enough.
Speaker 2:It's, just it's not in her design, correct. There is a portion of a kid's heart, of a kid's mind, where the father has to go and pour into it, otherwise it's just going to stay empty.
Speaker 1:I think it's important to mention too that a lot of times we think that the most masculine thing you can do is to get married, and that is a masculine thing to do is get married. Yeah, but while you're not married, I think that men should be doing what you're talking about and going and finding children, not just random children, yeah, yeah, like if you feel led, do it yeah. Right, right, because you don't want to ever not be doing God's purpose in your life.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's good for us to well. I'm single, so I'm just going to do watch TV, play video games. I'm not going to do anything else, yeah.
Speaker 2:And sometimes too I can think of one kid that I really love that he's actually a nephew of mine where I would say that I'm kind of taking up that role with him. But then there's also other situations and I want to bring this because, again, extremities we go and it's like oh, I need to find five orphans and you know, poor and sad. Great If you do that, that's amazing. But most of the time for me I'm walking downtown Grand Rapids and sometimes I stumble across an 18 year old who there's actually one that I remember specifically. We'll call him Joey.
Speaker 2:So came across Joey, he just stood out to me. I said what's up? He's actually was a homeless kid, again 17, 18 and father, no father in his picture, no mother, and I literally just got to sit and talk with him for about an hour, maybe, invited him to some food, really just let him speak and feel heard and feel actually like he mattered. And I would say, even in those little moments, that is essentially taking up the role of a father, because what does a father do in our lives?
Speaker 1:He approves of you right.
Speaker 2:And in the world, approval it can be a tricky thing because it's this thing that you have to earn, but in the kingdom of God, approval it's not based off of what we do, or when I say that I mean specifically on like earning it and working hard enough to get God's approval. It's not, it's this hey, I see you, I love you, I want to hear you. And literally this guy, I talk to him every now and then. Whenever I see him, he's no longer homeless. Praise God, Again, we're not super close. But man, it was one conversation saying hey, I hear you, and this is actually your identity. As men, we have influence over these kids and we can and should be actually owning up to that and submitting that to the Lord to allow God to speak to these people, which ultimately ends up kind of breaking up that cycle of, oh, I'm worth nothing. All it can take is just one comment of like hey, bro, I see you, and that's it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's enough to change their whole sometimes their whole life track.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it could be a moment, it could be a six-month relationship with that person, or it can be for a lifetime. So, yeah, that's one thing being a father to those of your own and not and another thing, Asmund, is we've lost the idea of having a craft. So, again, this is found in 1 Samuel. I wish I could remember exactly where it's at, but he starts talking about a few different things, and the first thing is, ultimately this is in my translation the first thing was to be submitted to God to be obedient to his word. That is a huge part of being masculine. You'll see that again, Jesus being the role model. That's what he did. He would go to secluded areas. Nobody needed to see him. You don't need to post it on Instagram stories or Facebook stories and saying, hey, I'm spending time with the Lord.
Speaker 1:You don't need none of that. Do people still do?
Speaker 2:that I don't know. To be honest, I haven't had social media in a while, so I I haven't had social media in a while.
Speaker 1:I technically don't, I just post something and then I delete the app, which is good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure.
Speaker 1:Because I just want to promote the podcast, so I'll post it. So I don't know if that's being done either.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean two, three years ago I would see people do that, so I'm guessing it's still a thing of you know how, like secular people are like, oh, going to this party. And I would do that hit them up, be like come to this party or I'm going to this concert blah, blah, blah blah.
Speaker 1:I don't want tiktok, because sometimes I do find myself on the tiktok there is people that are just like way too vulnerable.
Speaker 2:Some sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not. Yeah, you know I think more often than not we tend to lean on the not so beneficial.
Speaker 1:Because prayer should be between you and God.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, it really should. There is intimacy, right, intimacy with God. You aren't going to be intimate with your wife the way you would be if you were in public.
Speaker 1:Correct.
Speaker 2:I would hope not. Yeah, if you are, please. But essentially it's that you know I can kiss my wife in public. Yeah, I can share some things that the Lord's been speaking to me about, but there's also a lot of things, even conversations and not specifically on romantic or anything like that, just conversations in general that the world doesn't need to know. That I have with my wife, if I had one, and in the same way, you have a lot of conversations with God, I do too, and there are some things that are okay to share and there's other things where it's best if you just keep it to yourself. You know, sometimes revelations are for you and you alone. Other times you learn things that you can actually give as a shepherding message or whatever. So, yeah, if you find that related to you, use discernment, it's okay. So yeah, intimate with the Lord being submitted to His word. The second thing which is pretty noticeable is having a craft. So we're both musicians that having a craft, um, so we're both musicians.
Speaker 2:That is a craft. Yeah, there, there's a ton of things that you can do with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to say, you don't have to think of a craft as run, jump, sing, dance it can be.
Speaker 2:Maybe you cook food really well, yeah, or something like that, and you can either for yourself or you can bless others with it. Yeah, and I would say even to on the other side of that you don't need to have a degree for for you to have a craft right if you're on that way, great. Yeah, that's amazing. Your worth isn't based off of a piece of paper so I'll say that too.
Speaker 2:And again, it's a tricky thing when it comes to biblical masculinity, because either you go too far to this side or you go too far to the left side, and in the same way, that's why I keep. You mentioned one side, I'll mention the other, because it's all about finding that balance in the middle.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Right, right.
Speaker 1:Jesus leads, but he leads men into battle. He doesn't send them right. Yeah, and he is king of the world, but he's also into battle. He doesn't send them right, yeah, and he is king of the world, but he's also the one on the cross, exactly.
Speaker 2:He is king, but he also came as a servant. Yes, so it's all this thing about finding the balance between both sides.
Speaker 1:Right, because, back to the David Goggins thing, it's like, yeah, he's got one side of the masculinity, he's got the aggression, the assertiveness the drive discipline, yeah, but almost no heart, at least the way he comes off it's almost like he's cold-hearted a little bit and doesn't have that nurturing side that can come off or that servant side that you can have at At least he doesn't show what I see of him he doesn't, but he is really good for that inspirational and motivation when you're trying to get disciplined.
Speaker 2:And that's really good at times.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And for those who are thinking that like okay, well, where does it say in the Bible that you know Jesus was emotional? You'll see that Jesus wept, he wept.
Speaker 1:It is a verse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you'll see that. Jesus wept, he wept. It is a verse, yeah it is.
Speaker 2:There's also a lot of parts where it says he was moved with compassion, and so this is all emotional things and again, so to be a biblical man is to be disciplined, to be submitted, to have a craft and at the same time, again, part of the submission is to be compassionate. That is one of them Because, again, if we look at Jesus's life right when it comes to having a craft, what was it? He was a stonemason, he wasn't a carpenter. Oh my gosh, what.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day. It doesn't really matter, but he was in some type of trade. Yeah, right, again, what's a stone, mason?
Speaker 2:it's actually so, carpenter right, that's the way we see it. Actually, at that time some people would argue wouldn't theories right? There actually wasn't a lot of woodwork that was done then that makes sense it was mostly stone yeah so I would you know. People say that, um, jesus did dabble. He did a lot of woodwork stuff, but most of his craft was with stone yeah so yeah, there's that case you didn't know.
Speaker 2:Now you know fun facts with luigi 101. Um yeah, so that that's the craft. You see, the compassionate heart that he always carried, always willing. Because here's another thing too getting caught up in busyness it's a big thing, yeah, because if you're not busy then you're a bum in today's day and age?
Speaker 1:yes, yes, exactly. But see, the problem is, is we as Christians I would say just we as humans are so black and white and everything Once again the balance is lost because we say don't get caught up in the busyness. So what's the solution? You have to meditate on the word in the woods for four hours every day and it's like that's not necessarily the answer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I would say, it's all about priority.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And this is yeah, this has been a thing that I've been growing in, so I love having fun. Who doesn't, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Play soccer, pickleball, see me at the courts at Belknap, also video games and music. And ultimately, with having priorities, what comes first? Back then, I would 100% prioritize playing with the boys Call of Duty, apex, legends, whatever, fifa, fortnite, fortnite yeah, back in the day, and that would rob my time. I would have no time to go to gym. I would literally lose the day. I'd skip meals. Bro, you need to eat and I would just not care. Or, instead of cooking up a steak at home, I would drive to the gas station, pick up some hot Cheetos and then eat them as my meal to continue to play games.
Speaker 1:That's how much I you were the definition of the cheeto dust fingers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and always got a black controllers, never get white, because then they're stained uh yeah, horrible.
Speaker 2:And some people say, hey, video games is evil, video games are a waste of time. Sure, to a certain extent, the way I see it is, again, priorities First. If you don't know, now you know Jesus at all times. Prioritize Him, spending time with Him. That can look like many things. It can be worshiping on the car on your way to work. It could be waking up half an hour or 15 minutes before you normally do to get in the Word. It can look like listening to a sermon while you're working out, or allowing an audio Bible to run through while you're cooking dinner and actually focusing on it. Again, many, many different things to prioritize God in that way. And then the other things come, the practicals. Okay, what's my craft? Am I practicing my guitar? Am I focusing on actually even simple little things like am I taking care of my guitar? Am I focusing on, you know, actually even simple little things like am I taking care of my finances? Because I know I used to throw my money away on food all the time and so budget, it's good for you. And then, at the end of the day, if I know that I have completed all of my duties, all of the priorities that I've set before me.
Speaker 2:And it's 7 o'clock. I already went to the gym chilling. I already ate dinner, I already took a shower, I already did my laundry. Have fun, go play games and I'll play. Play for an hour, play for two hours. I think now I wouldn't really go past three hours because I try to sleep pretty early compared to how I used to. I used to be up at five in the morning, have to go work at eight. It was bad, really bad. Now I'm just like okay, I need to prioritize my sleep. So even at the end of the day, when you have time and stuff like that, still prioritize sleep above having fun with the boys and it's just like okay, seven to eight hours, that's what I want to look for and yeah, I would say that is kind of how I view priorities in my life that's good.
Speaker 1:I personally I don't play video games. I don't even have a tv in here. Technically I do, but it's sitting on the floor in my room. I was like what?
Speaker 1:because I know that as soon as I turn on the video game system, that thing's not coming off. Yeah, it's the same with. And some people would be like well, you just have self-control. Well, you wouldn't tell an alcoholic to have alcohol in his house, true, it's the same thing, true? So I mean that's awesome that you can do that. I personally just stay away from video games. My idea of fun is going on walks or reading.
Speaker 2:Yeah, walks or reading. Yeah, dude, going out, going out in nature. I think is important I wouldn't go alone, why I'd probably take my girlfriend why would you not go alone?
Speaker 1:I don't know, I I just don't. The only reason I don't go alone I mean, I do go alone, but the only reason why I don't really like it is because I feel like I look like a creep yeah, probably because I'm just like a guy by myself, true, true, but whatever, I know my intentions are pure, so I just do it anyway. Yeah, but there's some pretty cool, I don't know man walks yeah, hikes, it's how you get.
Speaker 1:It helps you get shredded too, because it's a fat burning cardio true, or you can just hop on the bike at the gym. Yeah, but being outside in nature, you don't have to make it weird, but it is God's creation as the trees, and there's some pretty cool trails out there.
Speaker 1:And one thing that I want to point out with that as part of the masculine journey, is I don't know, do you know who John Eldridge is? He wrote Wild at Heart. It's a famous Christian book for masculinity. I suggest't know. Do you know who John Eldridge is? He wrote wild at heart. No, it's a famous Christian book for masculinity. I suggest that one. But he also wrote fathered by God and it shows different stages in a man's life Boyhood is the first one and it's cowboy, then it's warrior and then it's lover. So I want to point out, since we're on the nature subject is don't just look. This will be like the next part of the, this episode. Don't just look for beauty in women as a man, that's good, and if that's the only place you're gonna find it, you're.
Speaker 1:It's not gonna be a good the marriage that you want it's just not because if you're looking for beauty in just her, I'm not saying I don't mean like, oh, one day she's gonna grow old. I just mean you have to find beauty in what god has created elsewhere. It could be in music, it could be in like. For me it's nature. Like I've been walking out in nature lately I don't bring my phone and just looking at all of the intricate details of trees and the flowers, the way they grow. It is, it's, it's beautiful, it just is. I don't know how else to explain it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's good, that's actually really good. That's actually something I haven't really considered, but, at the same time, time, I wouldn't say that that is one thing that I focused in on, on like my wife being the only beautiful thing in life.
Speaker 1:I think it can be a natural thing yeah, I would say I think it's more natural. I don't think anybody's being wakes up and says, oh, my wife is the only thing that's beautiful yeah, yeah, because I would say now that I really think about it.
Speaker 2:I find beauty in spending time with family yeah there's that too. So quality time, if we want to put a name to our title quality time with loved ones yeah my family super competitive again. Pickleball dude, we're there all the time um. We've been picking up golf. We're trash.
Speaker 1:But I can get down with pickleball, but I can't do golf dude.
Speaker 2:Okay, but you're talking about nature. Courses are pretty nice yeah but it's almost. Does that count as nature?
Speaker 1:technically, but for me it's so it sucks. It's almost too put together. Yeah, it's like going to a man-made lake. Yeah, they're cool. It's made out of natural things but, there's just something missing. Yeah, that's how golf courses are like. Yeah, it's nice to be out there, but I wouldn't say I'm going out in nature today and then go to a golf course.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I see that. Anyways, that's something that I would say where I've found a lot of my delight in spending time with family. So I agree with you.
Speaker 1:Well, that's cool. Agreement is always nice. Yeah, Sometimes I disagree with people on here and it's not as fun, but it's a lot more fun to agree. I gotta say yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like we've always been kind of that way, just like in our relationship. We're two completely different people. But, we always, I would say. We both have a gift of having conversations with people and, instead of making hard statements of like I'm right, you're wrong, we just mention it, we genuinely care about what the other person has to say about it. Yeah well that's how you should, so I think that's how you should.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's how you should. I'm trying to think it's like, but Jesus was kind of a little bit more straightforward in some of his approaches.
Speaker 2:Definitely. I'm not saying beat around the bush, right. I'm just saying say it, but don't be this. This is a whole different topic. To say it, but don't have this automatic.
Speaker 1:I'm right, you're wrong right, go into it with an open mind. Yeah, and you have to be careful with saying open mind, because then people are like he's gonna get into wooey stuff now and it's like, no, I'm not saying that I'm just saying.
Speaker 2:I'm open to listening that's what I like to say exactly open to listening to somebody yeah and just be real understand.
Speaker 1:If you're willing to see a different perspective, that helps a lot yeah it does we've talked about a little about the aggression side, so let's move on to passivity, the dangers of passivity. I hate passivity and we can get into a little bit. Yeah, well, so do I, but, dude, I used to be that guy a lot same yeah, and it sucks, and it's like when you start becoming assertive and just. I don't want to say owning your own life, because god owns my life, but I think we know what I'm trying to say for sure like taking control of your life and the dangers of passivity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and nice guy syndrome, which I think nice guy syndrome needs to be replaced with simp or pushover, because it's okay to be nice and and being a what they call a nice guy isn't really you're not. It's you're not really nice, it's more of just you're just more of a pushover. So let's go into that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really good, bro. Passivity and complacency oh complacency, dude those things are the worst. And they're the worst because they're they're hard to notice complacency especially. Yes, that's why they say complacency kills yeah because it's just like it sneaks up on and it's always in that cycle for so long you don't even notice it.
Speaker 1:Oh, I thought you said you're. You're being that psycho for so long.
Speaker 2:No, you'll be in that cycle for a long time before you actually notice. Whoa, I've been complacent and most of the time, at least in my life, I've been called out. That's how I figure things out when it comes to that passivity and complacency.
Speaker 1:I always figure out complacency because there's just something going. I start to feel a little bit more stressed. It's like, well, it's because you did this and that, and then I have to think, okay, let's go back, because what we do is we have these habits and they're really good. Wake up early. But then life starts getting good, and you just start coasting. And you start coasting and then it's like I don't have to really wake up. Really I got to where I wanted to yeah and that's just stupid yeah like you're not gonna.
Speaker 1:You don't excuse me. You don't go to the gym, work out and get strong and say, hey, I made it, so I'm gonna stop stop now, yeah, yeah, because in a matter of two weeks you lose it all. I wouldn't say lose it all, but you start to lose muscle after two weeks, which is kind of crazy.
Speaker 2:It sucks, dude, it takes you forever.
Speaker 2:I know, Anyways, yeah, and I think the biggest danger in it is again the good habits. You know you're going to prayer sets, you're going to prayer sets, you're going to church on sundays, you're going to your young adults group, you're going to your community time, whatever. I know some people that do. It's an event where basically once a month between three different families so it's a total of three months one family makes dinner and invites the other two families over and they kind of just commune together. Yeah, that's awesome and I'm saying like all these things are good things.
Speaker 2:But it can quickly become this cycle where you just begin to coast and in the same way, I found myself where I'm spending time with the Lord. You know, I found myself where I'm spending time with the Lord, you know, waking up early reading. You know, two chapters a day, or whatever. Last year I wanted to finish reading the Bible in its entirety. Yeah, finally was able to do that. So I was like reading, what 10 chapters a day, something like that? What 10 chapters a day, something like that? And in that, my goal of knowing god initially became, or turned into. I just want to make an achievement of getting this done. So, instead of so, instead of doing this to grow, I was just doing it because it, it becomes a checklist.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it became a checklist and like again good habits, right. And reading, quote, unquote, learning. But I'm not actually meditating on the word. I'm not, and I find it really interesting that meditating means to chew on, because when you eat a steak, right, you're not just going to swallow it, when you chew it, you can taste all the flavors.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it tastes really good, right, versus just inhaling that thing. And I just found myself being passive with not allowing myself to dig deeper, because sometimes there'd be verses that I would read that would really challenge me, that would convict me. That would convict me, and instead of me going down this vein that the Lord wanted me to walk into, I was like, eh, I'll pass, I'll just read the other six chapters I have left for the day and I'll call it good. Instead of going 15 minutes down this rabbit hole with God, I would spend 15 minutes just reading other scripture that maybe the Lord didn't really want me to dive into at that moment. So there's that. There is, and we can even take that a step back, which I would say a lot of of the church today is where they are okay with being Christians on Sundays.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, and then and what about Monday?
Speaker 2:What about Tuesday? What about Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday?
Speaker 1:And it's said so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I hear this all the time. I've had people on this very podcast saying like, oh, don't just have a Sunday faith. Cole Walters is one of them, and I don't think he's just a Sunday faith guy, but he's saying it too, and it's just like I hear it so much. But yeah, it's still such a thing. Yeah, yeah, it's still such a thing. Yeah, I know people who. So, yeah, okay, I'm going to go down a little bit of a rabbit hole.
Speaker 1:I know people who will complain about where America is today. Right, it's, oh, it's in dismay, we're going down. But then you come home from work and you drink. They don't necessarily get drunk, but they're still drinking. And then they watch movies or country music videos and it's like you. We wonder why there's no real revival in america. Do you know how common that is in christianity?
Speaker 1:for super common people to say and complain about where america is, like, oh, look at what these kids are doing. It's like you're not pouring into life, like they're not into people's lives, they're not volunteering, they're not going out evangelizing.
Speaker 2:I mean, they're a bit older but yeah, dude, and tagging on along with that, actually tying that back to something that was mentioned earlier, there's been a few churches where I've been in a few conversations with leaders there and they've asked me Luigi, where are all the young volunteers, because we just have old ones.
Speaker 1:Where are they?
Speaker 2:And the reality is they're hungry and they want to be fed. They want to grow, yeah, and there's no father to provide in these churches I would say a lot of churches in America specifically so they're going to go to where they can be fed.
Speaker 1:I think too, with the way that church is going, especially in America, it's feminizing men, and the men who want to be masculine don't want to go to church. They want to go be masculine. So who are they going to go to? Andrew Tate? And that's not a good thing that's another role model yeah, but here's the thing is he, he's out in the world and he is standing up for men and standing up for masculinity and teaching men about purpose, and but it's twisted.
Speaker 1:It's very twisted, I'm not saying it's good, I know, but when you're a boy and you're trying to be a man, and not every church, but most churches are feminizing you faster than the world is, because even some of the world is wanting to go back to traditionalism.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude, and I would say that one of the reasons why it's so captivating the things that he says is because he is onto something.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Again, just agreeing with what you said To a certain degree. This dude has the right idea of what it is to be masculine, but it's twisted, it's very ecclesiastical, it's masculine, but it's without God.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's 100% it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know he talks about having multiple women and all this stuff.
Speaker 1:No, that's not a king.
Speaker 2:That's not what a king does. Yeah, no, yeah. So that's what I've noticed, specifically with the church and their questioning of where are all these people? Dude, they're going to go to where they can be fed.
Speaker 1:That's it, yeah.
Speaker 2:And if you're a leader in some church and you randomly come across this, wake up, wake up. One person alone can't change a nation. It has to be a movement of people who are actually willing to do these things. Because you're right. This is said time and time and time and time and time again. What are you going to do about it If you're listening to this and you agree with this again? What are you going to do about it If you're listening to this and you agree with his message? What are you going to do about it?
Speaker 2:I know friends, really close friends of mine that I love, where they have seen fault in the church, specifically in discipleship. Again, we're talking about leadership. This is also part of masculinity, yes, where there has been absolutely no genuine discipleship. They focus onto programs. If even I know a few churches that do programs, I know many other churches that don't even do that and they have been affected by it. And instead of saying you know what? I recognize this issue, I'm going to bring it to the church and say what are we going to do about it? As a people, instead, they run away and they're just like I actually just. I don't want to be part of this church. I don't want to be affiliated with it anymore.
Speaker 1:Who runs away?
Speaker 2:The person who recognizes the fault. So, for example, this person, my friend. He noticed that a church that he, or a few churches he was a part of, had no idea of what discipleship was. And instead of saying, hey, let's take up this mantle of discipleship and actually hone down on what the Lord wants to teach us about it. That way, we can therefore go and make disciples of all nations as it says in matthew.
Speaker 2:What he did was I'm gonna back out and I'm gonna let them continue in there. This was essentially what happens, but you back out. He backed out that stopped being being affiliated with these churches and then these churches have no benefit because they're not being called out on that passivity and complacent leadership of not actually being willing to disciple others.
Speaker 1:I think we, as Christians, make it hard to call things out, because every time you call out anything, it's like the though it was without sin. Be the first to cast stone. Fan club comes out of the woodwork and attacks you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's why we can't get anywhere. It's like you try and correct something or somebody at church or something that they're preaching or something that they're teaching, and you can't do it because now all of a sudden you're this judgmental, horrible Christian who's just really mean. Yeah, and it's like you don't grow in comfort. Yeah, you have to be huge, you have to be called out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and ultimately, like I actually talked to to my friend about this, like I get what he's saying, he's on to something yeah but the answer is not to walk away, right, the answer is not even to just say it on a podcast and be like oh yeah, the church is passive.
Speaker 1:No, it's to be one of the people changing Exactly. What are you going to do about it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know, this dude started stepping into house churches. Cool dude, I love him so much, Love him so much, and there's been a lot of good things, Like don't get me wrong. But what about those other churches that he recognized? What about the hundreds of people that are there? Even the little churches, like the little Baptist churches that we've seen around here, 150 people, that's still 150 people that are not being discipled you know, and it's just like Unless it's a good church.
Speaker 1:Hey, don't be hating on the Baptists, I just Ied, you know, and it's just like, unless it's a good church. Hey, don't be hating on the Baptists, I just, I know you just mean small church. Yeah, that's what I mean.
Speaker 2:I know, and like I'm not even talking about mega churches where there's thousands of people like, yeah, that matters. But even if there's a church of 50 people and they're not being discipled, bro, that is an issue and that's just as important as000 others.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying. Oh, I get you. Okay, I get it.
Speaker 2:So that's what I'm saying. It doesn't matter how many people are in there, they need to, they need to be discipled. And yeah, in the same way we talk about these things of the church not waking up and all that stuff, it is so true that the church, the bride of Christ, is in slumber across across the nation, across the world. And now it's up to us to recognize that we do have a voice. And when I say us, I'm not specifically mentioning Gen Z, I'm not. Are you Gen Z? I don't know, dude.
Speaker 2:I'm in between bro 98, whatever that is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it doesn't matter yeah.
Speaker 2:Millennials. Dude, you could be 80. You have a voice. What are you going to do about it? And once we start to realize that we have a voice, that there is a sound, an audible sound that can come from our soul, from our spirits because, again, it's not about going to the street lifting up a sign and say turn and burn. That's not it.
Speaker 2:What I'm saying is that there is a spiritual warfare happening where it's just keeping this bride asleep and us as God's warriors men, women too we have to say something. And once we start to recognize that we have authority in that, then we can start to wake up the church. Why or how? Conviction, conviction and complacency are two very, very different things, and it's not about trying to harm or make someone feel stupid because of the way that they've been leading or anything like that, but it's more so just saying hey, I love you, let's wake up. Yeah, and you don't even necessarily have to talk to leaders about this man, get a group of five people that go to the same church as you and start becoming disciples. Yeah, if you are spiritually mature, disciple others. You don't have to become a pastor of a mega church to be able to have influence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot that can go on in the background. Oh so much, you don't have to have everybody looking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot that can go on in the background. Oh, it does. You don't have to have everybody looking at you yeah I'm.
Speaker 2:There's this one story I I should remember more things so I can be more accurate. Um, so again, this is my version. There's this dude. He was a missionary, we'll call him john. John goes to china, some island. John knows zero chinese and I'm pretty sure it was china. Yeah, he had one translator with him and he was able to go to a village. The village had like 25 people, something like that.
Speaker 2:Out of the 25, three get encountered and instead of him saying okay, let's get the other 22 here and then go to another village and hopefully they'll get saved, what he did is he started to disciple those three and then he left them. He commissioned them, just as we have been commissioned to go, we have been told to go. So he took a certain amount of time to disciple them, to teach them what the gospel was, to not actually just have it be some sort of a bedtime story, but to actually live it, to actually know that Jesus didn't just die for you, he died as you. And when you say that it is no longer I who live, but Christ in me, that means you died with him too, so it's no longer you. Once that actually becomes a reality for these three Chinese people. He said now go, don't go looking for the multitude, don't go looking for thousands of people, just go as I did. And then it's almost like this pyramid scheme. So we think of like.
Speaker 1:I know I was going to say but I don't want to use that terminology, I know, but it's just that, but it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it really is yeah and dude, from three people discipling three people, I think it was around 1.3 million, uh people after that came to know the lord yeah, that's how it's how it works it was insane, so I think it's almost better to it is to do it in smaller numbers, because you don't need to have these extravagant worship nights, yeah, where I have to invite the best preacher to preach the gospel and somebody will get saved.
Speaker 2:Praise God for those. You know passion, the events that happened down south and stuff like that. I bless it, I love it, I agree with it, but it's not needed.
Speaker 2:Right, it's not the only thing that you can do, cause I even I even fell into this of like, I became a Christian and I knew everyone needed to know about Jesus, but I didn't know how to tell them about that. So what I would do is like, hey, bro, go to this huge event, that's going to happen, it's hype, it's going to be awesome and there'd be encounters, don't get me wrong. Okay, it is led by the Lord most of them. But that's not it, dude. He gave you a voice. He's called us to disciple too. And just a quick testimony of that again growth and breaking out of passivity. That's an example of my life.
Speaker 2:I was passive. For me to evangelize was to say, hey, can I pray for you? No, okay, yes, great, I'll pray for you in Jesus name. Dude, there's this event happening next Monday. You should come, and I didn't even preach the gospel. That's not evangelizing. But what I would do is I would just push them to someone who knew and I was okay with it. For years, two years to be exact. Now I've actually allowed the gospel to become flesh in my life. Did the thing die?
Speaker 1:it's okay I think my camera did die one second no worries, I got like seven minutes, if that's all right, bro.
Speaker 2:I was supposed to be somewhere at eight. It's 805. You're good. This is a good conversation. I like it. Is this still rolling?
Speaker 1:No, I can get you. Are you going to be leaving soon?
Speaker 2:I did have to go soon. Okay, then we can just We'll do a part two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll do a part two, finish up the little thing that you were saying. Where were you on the last thing?
Speaker 2:Oh, the testimony, yeah, oh the testimony, yeah. Is the audio still recording it?
Speaker 1:should be Okay, I can't, can you hear?
Speaker 2:anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't hear it on mine.
Speaker 2:Actually, I hear myself Can you hear me. Yeah, okay, that's all that matters. Okay, do you want these?
Speaker 1:No, oh, you want to know why.
Speaker 2:Why.
Speaker 1:Because these are mine Beautiful, these are mine uh beautiful.
Speaker 2:All right, everybody.
Speaker 1:We are technical difficulties with the camera. I don't know if it overheated or died and luigi has to go somewhere. So we will definitely have a part two to this section. I don't know exactly when, but thanks for listening this far and I hope you all have a blessed week oh, wait, wait, wait.
Speaker 2:That was. That was an amazing exit.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna finish what I was saying, though okay, well, you're still gonna have a blessed week and there's a little more after this.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen amen, yeah, so I was talking about me being passive with evangelism and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:For me to evangelize was to send it to someone else who could preach a gospel. Eventually, the gospel became real in my life. I actually knew it, not just know about it and my heart was compelled and it was moved towards seeing the lost, like whenever I would see someone on the street and they didn't know Jesus, like it just hit me different. So eventually I started to gain the courage to actually be like hey, this is the gospel, and you know, that was about a year and a half ago and started working in this place about nine months ago. I love God with all my heart. Man, I'm not going to shy from that.
Speaker 2:And there's this guy, 30 something years old, atheist. He's like hey, bro, I get it, you love Jesus, that's good. I do not need prayer. He said, I don't need saving. Please don't talk to me about this dude ever, okay. And I was just like hey, bro, that's okay that you feel that way. It doesn't change the reality. The lord does love you and he is real and he wants relationship with you.
Speaker 2:And I just left out of that nine months of being his friend and this isn't me shoving religion down his throat, hanging. We go to cookouts, watch fights together and stuff like that, as a group with all the co-workers, and it came to this point where I literally just lived my own life, loving God. Actually, a few weeks ago he was like hey, do you got time to talk? And there was some pretty tough stuff going on in my life and I really didn't want to, but I just felt the Lord was just like hey, would you leave your life aside for a little bit? I was like okay.
Speaker 2:So I met with him and he shared his story. He just wasn't doing well. I told him dude, I have a response, I have an answer, I have a solution, but it's going to be something that you don't want to hear. Are you ready? He have an answer, I have a solution, but it's going to be something that you don't want to hear. Are you ready? He said yes, and I preached the gospel from the very beginning adam to the very end, and what I mean by the end, to like today that he is coming back and he ended up getting saved, which was wild and I share this. Not to boast.
Speaker 2:I boast in the lord for sure not over over me, but I share this because I was one who thought I had no voice, that it had to be someone with a mic in order to evangelize, in order to preach the gospel. But the reality is he wants to use you. He used me with an atheist who legit said I want nothing to do with you and your God. It takes time. It's not about seeing the. I want nothing to do with you and your God. It takes time. It's not about seeing the.
Speaker 2:This is referencing the parable of the seed. It's not about actually witnessing the seed grow. It's about throwing it. That's your charge. Go, lay the seed and let God do the growing. And look at him saved, got baptized. We talked about baptism and stuff like that, and dude got baptized last Monday, which was wild, and now we're teaching him about what intimacy looks like and how he can grow in scripture and super cool, because this guy was just like dude. I feel like Sundays are enough and I was like praise God, you're already skipping past half of the issues with the church of being okay with a Sunday church thing, cause that's not a relationship.
Speaker 2:So, all that to say is you are a voice You've been called to disciple. Go for it.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a perfect end, and look at that.
Speaker 1:We made it to an hour, that's the first.
Speaker 2:That's the first hour long episode that I've done with one-on-one.
Speaker 1:Anyway, everybody, this is the real, real ending Thanks again. I don't know if we're going to need a part two, because I thought that was going to be a lot longer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So we'll see. Louis, you will definitely be on here again. Question mark I'm down.
Speaker 2:Okay, am I welcome?
Speaker 1:Yes, Okay, let's make some food next time. You like the smell of that spice huh, it was so good dude, All right.