014: Melodies for the Heart and Humor for the Soul. With Lawrence Williams

Ever wondered if anyone could possibly love the chaos of snow more than the gentle pitter-patter of rain? Well, Lawrence, our returning champ of charm, certainly does not, and he's not shy about it—even in the face of staunch Michigander opinions! Our latest episode whirls into the great snow versus rain debate, where Lawrence's audacious stance sparks a flurry of playful banter. We reminisce about the glee of snow days, both as kids awaiting school cancellations and as adults covertly wishing for a work-from-home decree. Tune in as we exchange laughs over unexpected weather preferences and the quirky joys they bring into our often all-too-predictable lives.

Strap in as we segue from blizzards to ballads with Lawrence, who has been guiding hearts through song as a worship leader since the tender age of 16. His vibrant journey through the ebbs and flows of spiritual music is as rich and varied as his taste in tunes. From discussing high-top rain boots with a dash of Jordan-brand swagger to the timeless allure of a quiet snowfall, this episode is a riveting duet of humor and heart. Lawrence's infectious energy and anecdotes ensure that even the rainiest days are met with a warm, melodic embrace. So grab your fanciest umbrella or your snow boots, and let's step into a conversation that promises to be as uplifting as it is entertaining.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey Lawrence, welcome back to the pod. Oh what it is, though. How's it going today?

Speaker 2: 0:05

It's good, it's a lovely day. It's a little rainy, but it's still a little lovely.

Speaker 1: 0:09

It's supposed to rain for the next four days.

Speaker 2: 0:11

Unfortunately, but it's better than snow. As a Michigander, you must say yes. As a Michigander, I must say no, oh, no, no, no, you must agree that the rain is better than snow.

Speaker 1: 0:23

No.

Speaker 2: 0:24

How dare you? What do you mean? How dare you, what do you mean? Are you from Ohio or something? What's going on?

Speaker 1: 0:30

Ohio would like rain more than snow.

Speaker 2: 0:31

I didn't know this about you. I didn't know that you would be a snow guy.

Speaker 1: 0:37

I'm not a snow guy, but I'm more than snowing over rain.

Speaker 2: 0:42

I feel like we need to talk about this more. You prefer the snow over the rain, correct? I didn't know this about you. I feel like this is a whole new world. This is just a whole new you?

Speaker 1: 0:54

This is a northern state. How are you blown away?

Speaker 2: 0:59

I am, I'm blown away. I mean, yes, it's a northern state, but I didn't sign up and say I want to live in Michigan. Yes, it's a northern state, but I didn't sign up and say I want to live in Michigan. I was just born here. I mean, I like it and all, but I was born here.

Speaker 1: 1:09

Yeah, but you adapt to liking the snow.

Speaker 2: 1:14

It's come with time. No, I feel like when I was little, the snow was my thing, because see, you get to go outside and you make snow angels. We can still do that. I guess that's true. And then you get snow days off from school. You don't get that off work.

Speaker 1: 1:28

There was one time where we did. One time Doing a polar vortex yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:33

But it didn't count because we worked from home.

Speaker 1: 1:36

I can't work from home. Oh, that's true.

Speaker 2: 1:39

See, you got to go in.

Speaker 1: 1:40

I still made it in, though.

Speaker 2: 1:42

There you go.

Speaker 1: 1:42

But they said we didn't have to, oh, so it was an optional snow day.

Speaker 2: 1:46

Well, that's good, I miss snow days.

Speaker 1: 1:48

So you would rather walk outside and get drenched.

Speaker 2: 1:51

What you mean drenched. I got an umbrella. I got three of them actually. With the snow. You don't need an umbrella, yes, I need like boots. I need snow boots, I need them heavy extra duty you need rain boots, you need a rain jacket. I'm too, fly for the rain boots. Let's be honest If they put Jordans on the side of the rain boots, you know I'm buying them. You know I'm buying them.

Speaker 1: 2:16

I'm materialistic, even if they look the exact same as the other ones.

Speaker 2: 2:20

Exactly, that's my point. All I got to do is put a Nike Air Jordan up on there or just put AM1. You ain't got to put the whole thing, just put AM1 up on there. I'm buying them. You should send that into them. I should, but they don't want to talk to me no more, because I didn't give them too many ideas.

Speaker 1: 2:34

Really.

Speaker 2: 2:35

No, that's not true at all.

Speaker 1: 2:38

All right. Well, now that we know that we disagree on snow, and I'm very disappointed. I'm not. We can start with the fact that you are a worship leader. And what are some of your musical tastes?

Speaker 2: 2:51

That's an interesting thing for me. So, yes, worship leader, I've been leading worship since I was 16 years old. So it is great, it is thrilling. So you've been leading for 40 years yeah, almost Almost. You know that black don't crack, so I could be. You don't know, you don't know. I've been leading for 40 years. Yeah, almost Almost. You know that black don't crack, so I could be. You don't know, you don't know. I've been leading worship since I was 16 years old. My mother was a worship leader, my grandmother was a worship leader, sister, cousin, people were worship leaders in my family and, yeah, it's been an amazing experience.

Speaker 2: 3:17

But I am glad that, even as a worship leader, that along the line I was exposed to different kinds of music, different types of music, and so I don't ever feel like I'm stuck in a box with singing, which is very different than worship leading for me. I take worship leading very seriously, like it is, you're leading people into an atmosphere of worship. It is not just singing. But when I'm just singing, I like the fact that I'm not in a box, that I have all of these different influences, all of these different sounds that I have heard, that I know that I rock and that I'm able to just to bring that out when I'm trying to be an artist, of which I am not, you're not an artist. I don't like to consider myself an artist, because it's like when I see artists on TV, when I, of course, get in my car and I listen to music artists, I'd be like good Lord, how in the world do they do those runs? How in the world, how is it so clean?

Speaker 1: 4:18

Well, there's always going to be somebody who's better.

Speaker 2: 4:21

That's true, that's true. But the somebody who's better? That's true, that's true. But the thing is, with artists, I, I don't like to play the comparison game, because it's like we, we all have like our talent, and then we can all work to perfect our talent, and then there comes a point where it's just like, bro, you, just you, good, but you could be in a class all by yourself. It's hard to say that a Kirk Franklin is better than Taylor Swift. I don't know, that's like way out of the range, but uh, those are two completely different people.

Speaker 2: 4:51

But that's also like even if you were to say what, as an artist, which one of these people are better? Well, they're both great at what they do, Right.

Speaker 1: 5:01

Um, yeah, if you were to look at specific genre, right, right so it's.

Speaker 2: 5:06

It's hard to say, oh, this artist is better than the next. I mean, we have our preferences. You know, I'd rather listen to this artist than that artist. Yeah, but I probably could name like a bunch of rappers that are popular and people like, oh, we, we love their music, I love hearing their music on the radio, and I'll be listening to the radio like, this is trash. Where did y'all buy this? And it's the same thing I'm sure that they could say about some gospel artists or contemporary Christian or R&B artists. Right, there are a lot of R&B artists that I feel like we have elevated, gospel artists, contemporary Christian artists that we have elevated, who just have no talent.

Speaker 2: 5:46

And it's just like how did you get this record deal? Like, who did you talk to Sold their soul? Like you had to. But it's like you know, you come out with something that's popular. You cause it's a TikTok generation. You come up with something that's popular, you come up with something that's hot, that people can rock with on social media and, boom, you become a music artist. And it's like not to me, you don't, I'm not playing that trash in my house. So, come on. No, I can't, I can't if, if the only credit you got to your name is a song you got on tiktok. I'm sure that you either made a lot of money and you have reached a level of success putting yourself. But no, in 10 years from now, when there are kids growing up trying to figure out how to sing, how to rap, how to do it in a good way, then I go pull out your music from TikTok 10 years ago and be like this is who I like.

Speaker 3: 6:38

This is who.

Speaker 2: 6:38

I want to learn from no, that doesn't happen, it just doesn't.

Speaker 1: 6:43

Let's start with the good of secular music. In a Christian's life, is there any good that can come from listening to secular music?

Speaker 2: 6:52

I do think there is good. What, see, you're going to get me put up out of here now? I know You're going to get me put out the church.

Speaker 1: 6:58

I'm going to have to come to you.

Speaker 2: 7:00

I do think there is some good that comes from secular music, in part because I feel like there's a lot of secular artists that come from the church. Right, there are a lot of secular artists that started in church At least, I say this often as a joke, but they always say there's no lie in a joke, and that is white people and black people will live in two totally different universe when it comes to music sometimes, but I feel like a lot of.

Speaker 1: 7:28

I think I bridge the gap a little bit. There you go With the bass.

Speaker 2: 7:37

You do, you do bridge the gap. Well-known gospel artist, producer who has also written some very popular secular songs Very popular secular songs and those folks, they come from the church and we probably won't play their music in the church. I'm not saying that it's good or bad, but there's still talent there. So, yeah, there's a symbiotic relationship there. I think there's definitely some good that can come from the secular sector because they come from the church first.

Speaker 1: 8:10

But can it be helpful in our spiritual life?

Speaker 2: 8:12

Not always, not always I am under the belief that there is nothing wrong with singing about love, nothing wrong. There's something wrong with singing about sex nothing wrong. There's something wrong with singing about sex. And I feel like, of course, now you turn on the radio, at least, and all you hear, you know, bend it over, shake that, bend that, all that. You, you hear that. But there's nothing wrong with with singing about love. And no, you wouldn't play it in church, which has usually been like the standard. You know, can you play this in church? Which has usually been like the standard. You know, can you play this in church? No, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong.

Speaker 1: 8:48

Or evil.

Speaker 2: 8:48

Or evil, you know. I just feel like you know, if you're married and you're up on your honeymoon, you're not going to be playing all the overwhelming.

Speaker 1: 9:01

I'm definitely going to, but I'm one in a million.

Speaker 2: 9:04

Yeah, you're one in a million. Yeah, you're one in a million. I don't think it's going to be Hezekiah Walker being played up on the honeymoon and so, like you, I think it's healthy to have some sort of secular music, some sort of secular, because it's not all bad, it's not all evil. I'm just going to leave that secular because it's not all bad, it's not all evil. Right, yeah, and I'm just leave that there. I think it's definitely healthy to have that mix of influence, not necessarily in your spiritual life.

Speaker 1: 9:34

But we can sometimes do things just for fun. Like listen to music and have it just be enjoyable, right, as long as it's not bad Right.

Speaker 2: 9:43

Exactly, exactly, exactly. But I also I see I'm not naive to miss the point that music is definitely a gateway, and it's one of the easiest gateways to then either doing or thinking something that is not so in line with your more spiritual life, because I'll listen to certain artists and most of their songs are clean, but then, there's one little line in there.

Speaker 1: 10:15

They're singing about getting drunk and wanting to text somebody that they shouldn't. And it's just a rabbit hole from there.

Speaker 2: 10:22

And there are popular songs that you know you may hear at a backyard barbecue that is definitely clean enough for your grandma to listen to yeah until they actually listen to it. You know, and I and I, we can all name uh, what's one? What's one good song? Give me one good song where it's like it's clean and like my grandma could listen to it.

Speaker 1: 10:43

But I'm trying to think, because a lot of the motown songs are like that, where it's like this is fun and it's clean, it's upbeat. But then you really listen to it and it's like uh see I'm a huge 90s, early 2000s almost every song yeah, boys to men.

Speaker 1: 11:04

oh, you know, I love well I, I've heard some of those songs too, but I'm just saying, like it's, it sounds like it's okay to listen to, but then sometimes not that it's bad all of them, but some of the songs are really right when you really listen to. It it's okay to listen to, but then sometimes not that it's bad all of them, but some of the songs are really sensual, right when you really listen to it.

Speaker 2: 11:19

it's definitely silk. There's a meeting in my bedroom. They ain't praying. They ain't praying. Up in there I am, they ain't talking about a prayer meeting. So there are definitely some of those songs that are just like okay, this is not going to be helpful to your spiritual life.

Speaker 1: 11:40

But what if you're married? Would that be okay to listen to, or is it still kind of just that's a good?

Speaker 2: 11:47

question. That's a good question. I would me, being not married but engaged, and honestly I've heard a lot of those songs. Like I've listened, I know a lot of those songs.

Speaker 2: 12:01

I would say that it isn't, but you know who's to say it isn't bad to listen to right yeah, if, if it's not working for you spiritually, if it's not, if it's not edifying your relationship with your spouse or your relationship with yourself or with God, then I think that's the line that we should clearly draw. But I don't think you're going to get me to throw away my Luther Vandross albums.

Speaker 1: 12:28

Dude, you gotta.

Speaker 2: 12:30

Uh-uh, you can't get me to throw away my Stevie Wonder albums.

Speaker 1: 12:35

There's a ribbon in the sky for love.

Speaker 3: 12:37

I won't make you do that yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:40

Stevie Wonder is one of my faves no no.

Speaker 2: 12:43

Even with the very superstitious.

Speaker 3: 12:46

That ain't spiritual. No, it's not.

Speaker 2: 12:49

That ain't spiritual.

Speaker 3: 12:51

Where's part of the Bible that come from.

Speaker 1: 12:52

It's not, but it has a really good trumpet and bass line.

Speaker 2: 12:56

See what I mean. See people like that, people gravitate to that. But there are songs that definitely and I feel like we even see that and we say that about a lot of the more progressive, not in the political sense but more in just the more open sense the more progressive gospel artists right, kirk Franklin changed the game. When he came out in the 90s you couldn't play that in church. Now you hear Kirk Franklin everywhere. But when Kirk Franklin came out I remember there were older folks in church where it was like that's the devil music.

Speaker 1: 13:30

You can't play that, kirk Franklin. It's crazy because my family would play that in our car.

Speaker 2: 13:35

Right, right. So everybody was bumping it in their car.

Speaker 1: 13:40

Well, just like they wouldn't really play Christian rock either.

Speaker 2: 13:43

Right, right, you couldn't play that.

Speaker 1: 13:45

Drums were from the devil, exactly. Some people still think that.

Speaker 2: 13:49

Right, yeah, there's a lot of people actually that still think that it's like if you're not saying Jesus, Jesus, Jesus in every line, then you're not really singing about God and therefore you're going to hell Like. This isn't music that we should enjoy.

Speaker 1: 14:07

There are some times, though, where it gets into the. Jesus is my boyfriend worship songs.

Speaker 2: 14:13

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:14

And that's a little too far.

Speaker 2: 14:15

It's a little tough.

Speaker 1: 14:17

Because his name isn't mentioned and they just sing it and it just sounds weird to me.

Speaker 2: 14:26

And the other thing that I tend to dislike and maybe it's just today, but I tend to dislike about some of those songs is that it makes our relationship with God so common and familiar and on the same line and level as our relationship with other people.

Speaker 1: 14:47

Yeah, where it's like yeah, Jesus is friend, but he is also Lord and Savior.

Speaker 2: 14:52

He is also Lord and Savior.

Speaker 1: 14:54

And we still have to remember that Exactly.

Speaker 2: 14:57

God wants to be that friend that sits closer than a brother. God wants to be your counselor, your everyday person. He wants to be your ultimate physician. He wants to be all of that without you disrespecting or not holding One of my favorite sermons from Pastor Dwayne at Rest Life.

Speaker 2: 15:16

One of the first sermons that I heard him preach was holding God in high esteem. Yeah, and basically he explained listen whenever God, whenever His name, whenever His presence, whenever the things about God become equal to the things of the world, like we tend to make it to be, and we think it's okay. It's not okay. Just like when God had to stand next to when the Ark of the Covenant was in the same room with the God Dagon, and then they came back and they saw Dagon up on the floor.

Speaker 2: 15:49

That's how God is. God is not interested in being equal to anything in your life. There should be no other before him, and a lot of times we tend to bring God down so close to us that he becomes so common, as if we're benefiting from him being in our presence instead of us being in his presence. So I think that's a huge red flag. I think with a lot of the contemporary Christian gospel music that they're not mentioning God, but they're talking about God, but in a way equates God to the love relationships that they have with other people.

Speaker 1: 16:35

I wish they'd go back. Some older songs have the high praise and exaltation of Jesus.

Speaker 2: 16:43

Oh yeah, I mean, there's definitely some of that. I have been on this kick for two months and this would be wild. For anybody who has known me for any length of time, this would be wild. Has known me for any length of time, this would be wild. But I've been on this kick for just like those old time songs that really, you know, was in my grandmother's generation. One of the songs that I was singing the other day Washing Dishes, don't nobody seen this? You can't go to church, nowhere. It seemed like For somebody to say I will bless thee and I had a whole praise service just by myself, just with that one song. We don't sing songs like that, no more. Everything is so patty cake. We just patty cake, god. We make people feel good instead of giving people Jesus.

Speaker 1: 17:46

Do you think that it's because the culture is seeping into the church and making it slightly weaker, in a sense? Or why do you think that is that our music is no longer really about the praise, it's mostly just about equating God and it's about us. Let's just be honest.

Speaker 2: 18:04

Our music has become about us. A lot of the songs that we sing, even some of the ones that we like, have become about us. I dare not. I dare not speak against Fred Hammond. I love Fred Hammond. Fred Hammond I don't even know who that is man you don't know music, you don't listen. Hey, you cannot know anything about anything music and not know Fred. I love Fred Hammond. I've been listening to him since I was little and one of his most famous songs we're blessed in the city, we're blessed.

Speaker 3: 18:45

In the field, we're blessed when we come and when we go. We cast down every stronghold. Sickness and poverty must cease, but the devil is defeated. We are bled. That's about us.

Speaker 1: 19:01

Okay, you can say I don't know anything about music from Not On Him, but you can't say you know anything about dancing. After putting me through that.

Speaker 2: 19:08

Yeah, I don't know anything about dancing. I know absolutely nothing. That's why I don't dance. But that song I love it. Yeah, I can bump it in my car right now all day long with the windows down, yeah, but it's about us. We're blessed. It don't say nothing about who blessing us, right, it don't say nothing about god, and I think that's that's kind of where music after fred hammond, who you know is full of jesus, jesus, jesus, music after that Hammond, who you know is full of Jesus, jesus, jesus, music after that has just become about us and we like music like that. Yeah, yeah, we like music like that.

Speaker 1: 19:44

But why do we like music like that?

Speaker 2: 19:46

Because, oh yeah, so your original question it's not. I feel like it's both the culture invading the church, but also the church trying to become a part of the culture.

Speaker 1: 19:57

Yeah, but church should try to change culture and not be part of it.

Speaker 2: 20:00

Well, okay, that's the thing I think I probably take issue with, at least to preaching the church.

Speaker 3: 20:07

I told you listen don't put me out of the church the idea.

Speaker 2: 20:13

I think less. At least my job as a believer is to be trying to change culture.

Speaker 1: 20:21

You are correct in that.

Speaker 2: 20:22

That's not. I am not made to be changing the culture. I am made to be representing, and representing Christ Well.

Speaker 1: 20:32

I mean, you would change culture by representing him. I think. You're not going to go out there and just try to change people and what they do.

Speaker 2: 20:40

Right. Well, what I mean is, I think the focus should be am I living the way that I should be living according to the Bible? Like am I doing that?

Speaker 1: 20:50

Are you separate from the world?

Speaker 2: 20:52

And then, well, even not even just that, like, when you walk in into a room right, it could be a room full of chaos Do you bring peace? I would hope, right, and if you have to hope, then that's something we got to pray about. You should, your, your prayer life, your relationship with God should be to the point where it's like I don't have to walk in the room and say anything in order to get a change in the atmosphere. It should just be apparent. When Jesus was walking and saw the man full of demons, the demons cried out to Jesus why are you torturing me? Jesus was like what do you mean? I'm just out here, I'm just walking, I'm trying to get to my next plan. A demon's like okay, well, don't kill us, don't destroy us, send us into the pig, what you mean? I was just going across town, right, okay, well, okay, leave him going to the pigs. I went into the big the pigs and you, you read the story.

Speaker 2: 21:46

The thing is, jesus never walked up and was like you need to get rid of them demons. Them demons got to flee, them demons got to go. Don't get me wrong. Jesus could do that. Right, you can speak directly to the demon and get rid of it. That has also happened in the Bible, where the demon was talked to. But just from who you are, things must change. When you walk in right, things have to change. I don't think that the role is let's go out and have an impact on the culture, is go do what the culture does. The question is what you doing as the church, what are you doing as a believer? And what you do must be working, and that's that's, I think, is also the problem. We're so busy trying to be a part of the culture and or change the culture that what we're doing no longer works. So there's no longer a reason to respect church. There's no longer a reason to respect believers.

Speaker 1: 22:45

You're saying that churches are kind of changing to abide by the culture's rules Absolutely and you don't agree with that Absolutely. Okay, yeah, I don't either.

Speaker 2: 22:55

Absolutely Like everything that we do, I mean from the way that we dress. I remember the days folks would show up in a three-piece suit yeah, with their hats on, and like. That would be every Sunday, and we called them Sunday clothes Sunday best, sunday best yeah, now the same clothes you wear to work, you can wear to church and boom.

Speaker 1: 23:20

That's one thing that I haven't gone yet but draws me towards orthodoxy, orthodox church, because they make you wear a suit pretty much right like they take it very seriously right.

Speaker 2: 23:32

It's, it's presenting your best. It's. It's. It's not trying to be, it's not saying that just because you got a suit on, you're going to heaven, because there's a whole lot of people who want to heal in three-piece suits. I'm just saying but it's presenting your best, it's being set apart.

Speaker 2: 23:50

We do not honor those kind of traditions anymore, again, because we don't want to turn away people who may not listen to us anyway. Yeah, but that's kind of dumb, yeah, for me. I'm just like what's the point? Now, I'm not saying that it's wrong if you showing up in your button, up in your jeans Absolutely not. You see me on Sunday I'm going to have jeans on. How dare you Exactly? But also, if you want to show up in your suit, right. If you want to show up in them gators, black men, we love our gators, knowing they fake, but it's all right. It's all right. But if you want to show up in your gators, if you want to show up you know which, ok, no, you don't need it anyway, then do that, do that. That should be, that should be just as accepted in a part of the norm. And, if anything, I should be able to say you know what I can tell something different about it.

Speaker 2: 24:49

I'm going to say this and then we can do the next thing, like the one thing that I can appreciate about, for instance, muslims or people who follow the nation of Islam. I never, ever seen one of them dressed out of place. Never, I've never seen one of them not have their stuff to get. I'd be like, bro, you going to the grocery store, like we all up in here with jogging pants and bonding, so what you doing Got a full blown suit. It's Thursday. You ain't got church today. Yeah, they take their religion very seriously, very seriously, and they, they, they take their appearance. Yes, seriously, very seriously. Yeah, more seriously than I think us as Christians sometimes do, and I shouldn't say that, but yeah, more more seriously than I think sometimes us as Christians do. And it's like, yeah, that that stuff, those kinds of things, it works, it still works to present yourself in a better, positive light. You wouldn't show up to a job interview and Like that.

Speaker 1: 25:59

No.

Speaker 2: 26:00

Why would you show up to church like that, if it's really the house of the Lord, if you're really going in there to serve the Lord, this is the eternal interview. Exactly. Why wouldn't you want to give God your best? I don't understand.

Speaker 1: 26:13

Yeah, I get that. I was going to go back to why music is about us, like one of the other reasons, and I think it's because of the sin of pride is looked over is, I think, the correct term.

Speaker 2: 26:27

Yeah, it's easy.

Speaker 1: 26:29

And I think it seems like each generation we're letting another sin kind of just creep into the Christian lives. I don't know what it was the last generation, but it just seems like alcoholism isn't really seen as a sin so much anymore.

Speaker 2: 26:46

Right, if you just do it a little bit.

Speaker 1: 26:48

Yeah, just a little bit, but it's still bad. It's an every other weekend thing.

Speaker 2: 26:52

Yeah, you know it's not an everyday thing. So, no, I agree with you. I grew up in one of those kind of churches and I grew up around other worship leaders. We all dealt with this. You will walk in the church and there will be a mother of the church or one of the elders of the church, but I smell sin on you. That's what you feel. That's fried chicken, I don't know what. I smell sin all over you and we call it in our church. You go get sat down, and that is. And we call it in our church. You go get sat down and that is.

Speaker 2: 27:29

No, you can't sing to us today because you got to get saved first and it's not about your talent, it's about your heart. Yeah, and you nasty. Also, you cussing somebody out last week. I ain't stopping saying nothing to you, but I saw you. So, no, you can't come in here and call yourself prophesying to us, because we see it written all over you and like there was a standard that was just like listen, I don't need you to be holy, just up in here in this setting around us so we can see. I need you to have a prayer life. I need you to go home, I need to see you in the grocery store representing Jesus in a positive light. Yeah, and so it was really like you know, you had a prayer life Like that was just it. Now we don't care.

Speaker 2: 28:14

It seems like you can go to many churches. They don't care nothing about your prayer life. It's like do you have the talent? If you could do enough riffs and runs for us, if you can produce really well, if you can hold that camera really well, boy, if you can listen, if you can work that fog machine, that haze machine, real good and get them lights well, not only are you hired, but you anointed. No, you're not anointed, you're just good at what you do, but you're not anointed to do that. You know when the last time you prayed, when the last time you had a relationship with God, that just wasn't relegated to Sunday mornings, and I think that is a part of where we have just, we've gone off track. And to your point, yes, it is very easy. Like I said, I've been leading worship since I was 16 years old. You know how many times you get off stage and there's somebody patting you on the back. I know.

Speaker 1: 29:03

Well, as a bassist. That rarely happens, but when it does.

Speaker 2: 29:06

I'm sad. Yeah, the musicians, y'all don't get. Y'all get paid, though we ain't going to talk about that, I didn't.

Speaker 1: 29:13

No, we ain't going to talk about that. Hey, I don't get paid.

Speaker 2: 29:16

Never, because as Singers, we don't get paid. You got the lead. If you want to get paid, yeah, no, it's like you jump down and there's always somebody patting you on the back oh, I love the way you sound, I love your worship, I love you. And they're not asking, they're not really probing. Hey, no, what's really going on with you? What's really happening to you? Sometimes you can play and you can sing through pain, and people won't notice it, because you could be just that good. People won't notice it, or people just choose not to notice it. They choose to ignore it.

Speaker 1: 29:51

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:51

Because it seems like the one place that you should be able to go to, and that is church in order to be able to talk about those issues, to be able to really be around a group of believers where you can have those conversations. We don't want to have those conversations in church because if you start admitting that you're still dealing with sin, then I have to admit that I'm not perfect either, and I come here every Sunday, I pay my tithes and you're perfect and I'm perfect. So if you start admitting that you're not perfect, then that means I got to sing next Sunday because you can't sing. I got to preach next Sunday because you can't, because you're not perfect, I'm perfect.

Speaker 2: 30:30

And it's very hard and especially when you are on the platform it can be very hard. Right, because there's folks who sit in the pews. Dr Jamal Bryant said this best. There's people who sit in the pews that want grace from the platform, but they don't give grace to the platform. We don't allow people who are up singing and praying for us and up preaching to us. We don't allow them to fail. We don't allow them because we hold them up on a pedestal so they can't cuss nobody out when they're driving and they get cut off, shouldn't we?

Speaker 1: 31:05

as worship leaders be held to a higher standard, though.

Speaker 2: 31:09

I think when we read the Bible, God doesn't call us all worship leaders.

Speaker 1: 31:15

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:16

Calls us all priests. It's not that one or the other should be held to a higher standard. We should be holding ourselves to be accountable. That's what it is, and so I don't mind. If there's a preacher that ain't doing right, sit him down, yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:30

He can't be up every day. No, is there a preacher who ain't doing right? You know you coming up in here and you preaching to us and you doing 99 things right, but you having kids out of wedlock. Having kids out of wedlock, we send you to preach over in California. You come back with three baby mamas and we didn't know nothing about. No, that ain't right.

Speaker 1: 31:46

Right.

Speaker 2: 31:46

That ain't right. You need to be sat down. Yeah, you know, and it's the same with everything else. You can't be up in here doing this and and and and our city, you, you presenting yourself as, but then you go to the Bahamas for vacation. When we send you on sabbatical Ain't no telling what you did there and whatever happened in Vegas stayed in Vegas. No, that's not how it works.

Speaker 2: 32:08

So we should definitely be holding people on the platform accountable. I think sort of the issue is we hold people on the platform accountable, but we don't do that for the people in the pew. So you want to get prayed over when you have your child out of wedlock, but don't let your pastor have a child out of wet lock. Oh Lord, Now he got to. He can't preach no more, can't sing no more, and it's like, yeah, no, we, we want grace from the pulpit, but we don't give grace to the pulpit and and I think that's a problem because it leaves people who are on the pulpit afraid to have conversations where they can say you know what? I'm broken, or I'm dealing with an issue and I don't know what to do. I've been praying about it, I've been giving my money about it. I've talked to my therapist. My therapist don't go to church. I talked to my therapist about it. They're not able to help me.

Speaker 2: 33:06

I've been reading my Bible and I still feel like God ain't talking to me. Why he ain't talking to me? He's been talking to you because every time I come up in here you got something to say to me. So maybe he's just not talking to you. Maybe he talked to me. You know, I've been journaling. They always say, well, journal. I've been journaling. I've been going on my prayer walks. I don't feel this situation that I'm dealing with, or or this sin, this unrevealed sin that I'm dealing with, it's actually being worked. I don't think God hears me. I don't think God is honoring me. I think it's those those hard conversations that it's hard to have, especially when when you are on the pulpit because people don't want to hear that it's a current situation for you. We love when the pastor tells us about when he used to see him.

Speaker 2: 33:43

Right when he used to think God didn't hear him. But it's hard to be listening to your pastor on Sunday and your pastor is explaining. I don't think God is listening to me right now, or the vision that God gave me, I don't think I see it clearly right now. I don't think it's working for me right now, and I think that's where it comes in, and the Bible talks about that too. If your brother falls, you got to cover him. You got to cover him. You got to pray for him until he gets back on his feet. You got to surround him with community of believers.

Speaker 2: 34:16

Brother, no, we are not accepting where you fail, right. We are not accepting that sin Right, but we do accept you. And if you down, if you being isolated, the enemy is coming after you and you feel like you are dealing with your guilt and shame. The enemy got to come after all of us and we ain't finna allow that. No, we can pray, we can fast, we can do whatever we got to do to make sure that you get your connection or reconnected with God, because that's what's going to take for all of us to be able to work together to build a kingdom.

Speaker 1: 34:50

Well, I'd rather just take his place and let him fail. Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2: 34:54

Most people would. Jealousy is alive and well in the church. It's alive and well, and so I feel like that destroys a lot of communities, a lot of congregations, because we see that opening, we'll be like, oh see, I told y'all you should never let him preach. You should have let me preach. I told y'all you should never let her sing because, mm-hmm, I told y'all it's always the. I told y'all, you know in the church, I know.

Speaker 1: 35:25

All right. Well, I can't believe it's already about 38 minutes.

Speaker 2: 35:29

All right.

Speaker 1: 35:30

This is a good conversation.

Speaker 2: 35:31

It was For the original topic, though, the snow.

Speaker 2: 35:37

Music, music. I do think there are areas, there are times where you can have so-called secular music a part of it. I think the most important thing is that you guard your heart, that you guard your mind Absolutely. My old pastor used to say protect your floodgates, so you shouldn't be looking at anything, you shouldn't be listening to anything, you shouldn't be, because whatever you're, you're getting in through here, through here, through your senses. It's going to come out Like, eventually it's going to come out. So I think it's important that you protect those floodgates and not be putting, not be setting yourself up to be doing something that you're going to have to repent about because you decided to take a break today and consume junk and when we say that, I think we always talk about in the area of food, that ain't the only junk that you can consume. There's a lot of stuff on TV, there's a lot of stuff on the radio, there's a lot of stuff everywhere that we consume that defiles our soul and our spirit, but we don't want to talk about that.

Speaker 1: 36:49

Just the stuff that defiles our body. Nope, wise words spoken by Lawrence Williams.

Speaker 2: 36:56

I'm just Lawrence, not a wise man. I'm just Lawrence. I'm just trying to live right.

Speaker 3: 37:04

And failing.

Speaker 2: 37:08

We've all fallen short. It's all right, Come to Jesus everybody.

Speaker 1: 37:13

Thanks for coming on and everyone listening. Have a blessed week.

Speaker 3: 37:17

Oh yeah, We'll see you next week See you See you.